trip time at 207v vs 230v
Just to add to Mike's reply - in all this we're talking about voltages at two different parts of the system - the nominal supply voltages are as at the consumer's supply terminals (i.e. include the effect of voltage drop along the supply lines) whereas for loop impedance calculations the physics is really based on the voltage at the substation - the voltage drop along the supply lines during a fault is taken into account of by including Ze in the calculation. (A while back, ADS calculation took this into account, based on Uoc rather than Uo). It's very unlikely the substation would only be pumping out 207V as there would be no margin for v.d. in the supplier's lines.
- Andy.
Would Voltage drop calculations needs to be looked at and possibly adjusted in BS7671? As an example
8A current, 30m length, 18 mV/A/m value
18 * 8 * 30 over 1000
Volt drop 4.32 volts
Supply at 230 V: The voltage at the load would be 230v - 4.32v = 225.68v
Supply at 207 V: The voltage at the load would be 207v - 4.32v = 202.68v

4.32 is 1.88% of 230v
4.32 is 2.09% of 207v
Thus with the current 3% and 5% allowances for volt drop would the 5% limit need to be lowered in time or would product specification/requirements deal with it?
well its an interesting point, because meeting the product standards only requires the design to work down to -10% of 230 - now at the moment we lose 5% of that between the substation and the meter, and the other 5% is available for the voltage drops in sub-mains and final circuits and so on. This way, the 'just passed 'CE marked product plugged in at the end of the extension lead at the far point of the installation is happy.
Ignore for now that a lot of private transformer sites that have a large extent, like factories hospitals and schools already take all of the 10% and sometimes more, for drops in their own wiring, and looking more at the effect on the man in the street. Once the voltage at the meter is as low as 207, then actually no CE marked appliance is guaranteed to work anywhere other than very close to the meter indeed, as there is in fact no provision for a sensible amount of voltage drop in the wiring of the installation itself.
I suspect it won't be an issue except for a few fussy appliances, and not at all in small flats and bedsits, but in larger places with annexes and so on hot showers may be a bit cooler and toasters a bit slower than the worst case the makers are supposed to have tested when they apply the CE mark.
Ideally we'd ask the product test spec lower limit to be set another 5 to 10% down to allow for realistic installation side voltage drops. However, I bet it won't happen any time soon, and 190V, might be realistic, but sounds a long way down.
Opening the 'acceptable' voltage eye too wide also rather degrades the idea of the O-PEN detection by voltage deviation as it decreases the range of fault conditions that can be detected with good confidence.
Mike.
I wonder how much this matters, particularly in a domestic setting. If Ze is at the PME limit of 0.35 Ω, and a (radial) socket is at the Zs limit of 1.37 Ω for a 32 A Type B RCD, that means that R1 + R2 is 1.02 Ω. At 16.7 mΩ/m, that is 60 m of 4 mm² T&E.
A millionaire's mansion is under construction locally and is less than 40 m from end to end, so even they should not have a problem.
The figures in Table 41.3 use a value for Cmin of 0.95. I am bound to wonder why this is not 0.94, but perhaps if these changes occur, the value of Cmin should be reduced to 0.90?
This way, the 'just passed 'CE marked product plugged in at the end of the extension lead at the far point of the installation is happy.
Depends upon the length of the extension lead! I once could not get a chum's (table-top) bandsaw to start, but he told me that I just had to start it off by hand. It was daisy-chained at the end of two 50 m extension leads.
Surely, appliance manufacturers take into consideration voltage drop. Even then it is not much. Your 3 kW fan heater probably will not care, but perhaps a washing machine with a 2 kW heating element might. Let's make it a very old one with an ordinary 500 W motor; and let's put the laundry 20 m away from the DB. At 11 mV/A/m, that is about 2.4 V
So, we are talking about a voltage drop from the meter of the order of only 1%
except, like the band saw. that 500W motor might take 10 amps or more on start up, and then the droop is excessive and perhaps it is very slow to start or perhaps it never does and just sits there and smokes...
Flats and small houses as you suggest with perhaps less than 20m of cable between meter and load are probably OK. But I am aware for example of odd cases of tumble dryer motors not lasting well (more precisely the start and run capacitors inside not lasting well ) in garages where the power supply is weedy (2.5mm SWA radial). Then there are places where the meter is at the opposite end of the drive to the building or there is a supply to the stables or something - the voltage drop allowance in the regs is there for a reason, and sometimes we do use all of it.
Appliance makers do take account of voltage drop, and currently test at 207 worst case for that. I'm noting that may now not always be 'low enough' to be confident with that appliance in all places it might be used.
Personally I think a better long term fix is to encourage the use of 3 phase to the house, and get rid of some of the neutral side voltage drop or rise that way.
Mike.
I really hope the DNOs decide not to go ahead with this change over the last week or so we've had prolonged periods of the mains being down to 233 volts or so not an issue in the house but in my workshop on one particular evening the voltage dropped to 227 volts and I noticed that my filament lamps looked decidedly dull other loads in the workshop were a 1.5 kilowatt radiator ta twin 36 watts flurescent light magnetic ballast with starters. Plus a 2 small power supply's. Feed to the shop is by about 60 feet of 2.5 mil flex. The heater causes about 6 volts drop which with normal 238 volts mains really isn't an issue. I'm not sure if the lower volts is due to this new idea or is due to the fact they are rebuilding chickerell grid sub station. I really don't know and I don't think the DNO will tell me even if I ask
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