Shower tray acting as capacitor? Measured 28v!

First post as I'm hoping someone here might be able to give me a good technical theory (aware without more points of data a true explanation might not be possible) which explains the phenomenon I have experienced recently.

It started with me receiving what I immediately recognised as a small shock from the metal tap in my shower, a small sharp tingle. An important detail is that I could not feel this shock with my bare hand (even soaking wet) only by chance a tiny cut on the edge of my thumb had touched and there, without fail I could feel it. Upon stepping out of the shower the shock disappeared, back in, it returned.

To make sure I wasn't going crazy, I grabbed my multimeter and took a measurement from the waste water to the metal tap, 20V. My gut feeling was some sort of conductive path based on the waste pipework as the voltage dissipated as the water in the waste drained away with the tap off.

Next thing I did was obviously call a qualified electrician out who tested my installation and could not find anything wrong, a real head scratcher for him. At the end of troubleshooting day one, the working theory was that the water and biofilm in the pipework combined with the water at my feet were creating a path to the cast iron waste pipework much further down in the building, that might not be bonded to the building's main earth point as the waste pipes into each property (its a block of flats) are all plastic so no need to bond.

Purely by chance I did some more testing later myself, and noticed that the voltage jumped up before the water had even had a chance to run down the waste for any time at all really, it seemed to occur as soon as there was a decent pool of water in the tray, this is when a ridiculous idea popped into my head, and I thought the plastic shower tray could be acting as a giant dielectric‽

Anyway I plugged the shower and filled the shower tray, so now the waste was completely out of the equation and the water was much more consistently covering the whole base of the shower, we're up to 28v! I also took a resistance measurement of 290kilohm to give a current of just under 1mA. Tiny, and explains why I can only feel it precisely on the tiny point where my skin is broken and nowhere else.

As for the source of the voltage, as no faults were found I am at this point assuming it is all leakage current, I have a few PCs, all smart lights, so both the socket circuit and the lighting circuit had an influence on the measured voltage.

With that in mind, is what I am proposing: a capacitively coupled pool of water in the shower tray technically feasible as a mechanism to introduce a different potential into that scenario to the earth in my flat, bonded to the shower taps via pipework, that is carrying some leakage current?

I still need to investigate under the shower of course, perhaps some structural metalwork, or other cabling? OR a very damp floor with an unknown slow leak that is conductive enough to join to some other structural point that eventually joins true earth independently of my electrical installation.

Fascinated by figuring this out, but also very confused currently.

EDIT:

Got access to underneath the shower, there is metal studwork on 3 sides of the shower. The metal base bar of the studwork runs around the sides of the shower tray base. The left wall to earth reads 33v and the right wall 28v. There is no damp, cabling, screws poking through the floor into the shower tray that might have broken the surface.

Is it technically possible for current induced in the metal studwork from live cables, to be capacitively coupled to the thin sheet of water pooled in the tray, which then passed to the grounded shower tap via me?

Parents
  • That's not a real current then, it states up to 33 volts.

    I'm amazed he could feel anything I wonder if it was at 50 hz 

  • If you have a well controlled variable voltage supply and some bowls of water, and a bit of nerve, it is quite educational to investigate your own shock thresholds and body resistance. However, start very low and do not do this alone.

    Both parameters are something that varies a lot between individuals, as is dry skin resistance, which for some individuals can be many k ohms.

    However, showers and baths are a particularly risky environment, as the normal skin resistance is greatly reduced by water, and cuts and similar injuries reduce it still further, by allowing direct contact to the salty conductive stuff within ;-) 

    This 1960s article (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/4766095 ) mainly looking at shocks from swimming pool lights suggests that the human body resistance drops to of order  some hundred ohms when immersed and significantly less than one volt RMS was needed between the electrodes to get the upper limit they tested of 5mA  flowing in the rather contrived twin tanks test below, down to about 0.3 volts in the case of the most conductive subject and the highest water level, and up to 0.67volts on the most resistive and lowest water level. 

    Don't think that half a dozen volts won't be felt - it won't be felt though dry skin for sure, but in a bathroom, it may well be.

    Mike.

Reply
  • If you have a well controlled variable voltage supply and some bowls of water, and a bit of nerve, it is quite educational to investigate your own shock thresholds and body resistance. However, start very low and do not do this alone.

    Both parameters are something that varies a lot between individuals, as is dry skin resistance, which for some individuals can be many k ohms.

    However, showers and baths are a particularly risky environment, as the normal skin resistance is greatly reduced by water, and cuts and similar injuries reduce it still further, by allowing direct contact to the salty conductive stuff within ;-) 

    This 1960s article (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/4766095 ) mainly looking at shocks from swimming pool lights suggests that the human body resistance drops to of order  some hundred ohms when immersed and significantly less than one volt RMS was needed between the electrodes to get the upper limit they tested of 5mA  flowing in the rather contrived twin tanks test below, down to about 0.3 volts in the case of the most conductive subject and the highest water level, and up to 0.67volts on the most resistive and lowest water level. 

    Don't think that half a dozen volts won't be felt - it won't be felt though dry skin for sure, but in a bathroom, it may well be.

    Mike.

Children
  • Don't think that half a dozen volts won't be felt

    You mean like licking the terminals of a PP3 (or PP6 or PP9) battery? :-)

  • licking the terminals

    indeed - again wet tissue. Though hopefully in and out of the tongue and not a current path via any essential organs like heart or lungs.

    Mike

  • essential organs like heart or lungs

    Lungs???

    Funny old thing about the heart is that leccy can both stop it and start it. A standard 50 J belt from a defibrillator has always seemed like quite a lot of energy to me.

  • As a teenager I suffered a very bad shock,  during which I was not able to breath while a current that left lovely entry and exit burn scars on my hands flowed until I was disconnected by  friend who saved my life.

    Apparently while the current was flowing I was making a loud 50Hz growling noise, and then dropped to the floor when the power was cut. I dont actually remember that but I do remember looking up at a lot of worried faces.

    Based on this, I can say that 'lungs' are indeed parts that do not work well while current flows, and as we die without them working, I'd put them on the 'essential 'list.

    The start and stop of the defibrillator is indeed a lethal level, but the time shape of the pulse is critical, and  it is also critical not to apply the shock if there is a healthy heartbeat, so the machines check for that.

    https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/01.cir.97.16.1654

    Mike

  • Based on this, I can say that 'lungs' are indeed parts that do not work well while current flows, and as we die without them working, I'd put them on the 'essential 'list.

    I see what you mean. However, it was the muscles which work the bellows rather than the bellows themselves which were affected - the same phenomenon as cannot let go.

    In any event, one can quite safely hold one's breath for a few minutes.