Air source Heat Pumps and Diverted neutral currents

Hi I have been having a conversation around the requirements to fit an RCD on these circuits, it turns out it is a manufactures or appliance standard recommendation. It then occurred to me what out diverted neutral currents if the protective earth & neutral conductor (PEN) were to break.

If these units are fitted on a TN-C-S earthing system and the PEN conductor breaks the metal casing could become live as the earth conductor could end up carrying the neutral current.

The person touching the ground would be earthed and the current would flow through them, in this case an RCD would not function as it wouldn’t see the imbalance. I feel it should be considered its no different to having an electric vehicle charger and having a metal car. For that an Open PEN detection device is required.

Any thoughts on this point ?

Regards 

Daniel 

 

Parents
  • Any thoughts on this point ?

    Until EVs were invented, nobody even thought of Open PEN detectors.  Everybody worked on the basis that if it was on an RCD, it was fine.  Loads of metallic things are used outside.  Lawnmowers, cement mixers, outside lights, etc.  But our homes aren't surrounded by piles of dead bodies.

  • Agreed.

    There is also a clue inasmuch as the electrics will have stopped working.

    I suspect that isolated loss of PEN is very rare save for aerial supplies in singles. Last night's storm may be another clue.

  • But, (but!)  since about 1970, all lawnmowers hedge trimmers etc - essentially all hand held outdoor appliances, have been Class II - that is to say double insulated, for exactly this reason - so you are not relying on a CPC that may not be at terra-firma earth potential. 
    Fixed equipment, like lampposts and bus shelters provide their own electrodes from the foundations, or for some comms equipment  (and lighting in phone boxes, oddly) are wired as TT so as not to use the TNC-s earth.
    outside lights on a house dont generally get held onto 
    Things with an unavoidable earthed metal nature (Caravans and boats come to mind, and some farm equipment like semi-enclosed milking parlours ) are prohibited from using the TNC-s earth, and must be TT.

    EV cars are the odd one out, in that the TNC-s supply was already there.

    Mike.

  • EV cars are the odd one out, in that the TNC-s supply was already there.

    Also, whilst a heat-pump might be supported by a metal frame, which might be on or in the ground, an EV sits on four large black insulators.

  • Addendum...

    if you want to know how rare or not a lost neutral event is, consider page 16 of this report
    Where figures for different UK DNOs imply something between  7.96 x 10 -4 and 3.68 x 10 -4  chance per year per household of a neutral fault 12 years ago.

    Mike. 

    PS I have experienced one, and am aware of another.

Reply
  • Addendum...

    if you want to know how rare or not a lost neutral event is, consider page 16 of this report
    Where figures for different UK DNOs imply something between  7.96 x 10 -4 and 3.68 x 10 -4  chance per year per household of a neutral fault 12 years ago.

    Mike. 

    PS I have experienced one, and am aware of another.

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