The units proposed are safe, in the fact that they need mains to work. So if you pull the plug you don't have live pins in your hand, and similarly if you have a mains outage, you cannot feed back into the mains to give some guy working on the circuit a shock. I am going to install one of these units, but have questions, particularly for the IET, as they may have had an input with government discussions. As a DIY person will be able to plug these in, there will have been no qualified person involved, so :- You will still need to fill out a G98 as you are connecting to the network. The present G98 needs qualification details from the Electrician installing it. Will this form be changed to allow an unqualified person to apply. 

Once you get the form at apply for a  DNO, will you be able to apply for export payment. Presently not allowed unless installed by a MCS certified Electrician, but of course it won't be. The rules say you can't export without these forms, but once plugged in, you will export on a nice day. My base load is only around 350w, and I fully expect to get 750w from my proposed set up. Can anyone in the know, let me know what the new proposals are going to be. Thanks

I get the impression that the government wants to sweep away the bureaucracy for balcony solar up to 800W. No forms to fill in, but no export payments either.

If the government consulted the IET, then balcony solar would never happen. The requirements would be so onerous that nobody would bother. So long as the kit comes with a 13A plug, it can sidestep the Wiring Regulations entirely.

Until there's legislation in the UK that specifies exactly which qualifications are required to carry out electrical installation work, then you don't need to put anything down on the G98 application form regarding qualifications. As for being paid for export, there's nothing that says an installation not carried out by an MCS accredited installer cannot receive Smart Export Guarantee scheme payments. The guidance from Ofgem regarding SEG payments simply states than an installation carried out by an MCS installer (or an installer with membership of a similar certification scheme) MUST receive SEG payments. Under SEG, the customer does not have to have an import account with the same electricity supplier that makes the SEG payment for export. Any supplier that insists on the customer having an import account to qualify for an export account is operating completely outside of the Smart Export Guarantee scheme. Octopus Energy already allows non-MCS certified installations to receive export payments, but the customer must also have their import account with Octopus Energy as well.

Thanks for this. So are you saying that as I am not a "qualified" electrician, but am a very competent DIY, and am FIET, so will hard wire my unit into a fused spur, install an bi directional RCBO, fully bond the roof frames etc,  that I can submit a G98 and perhaps put FIET in the qualifications part. Then that would be ok. Then apply to export.

Ken Fletcher said:

so will hard wire my unit into a fused spur

Which makes it part of the fixed installation and accordingly, subject to BS 7671.

ok, for the sake of my G98 questions etc, Lets leave it as a plug in, but still earthed RCBO etc. Whats the answer.

Whats the answer.

Presumably buy the unit then "install" it according to the manufacturer's instructions.

I'd be wary about blithely bonding the frames etc. - there are some good reasons to do that, but also many good reasons not to - a lot depends on the individual circumstances. Small systems with the d.c. side protected by double/reinforced insulation or PELV/SELV may well not benefit from bonding, but exporting (especially PME) Earth carries risks.

   - Andy.

Whats the answer.

Presumably buy the unit then "install" it according to the manufacturer's instructions.

I'd be wary about blithely bonding the frames etc. - there are some good reasons to do that, but also many good reasons not to - a lot depends on the individual circumstances. Small systems with the d.c. side protected by double/reinforced insulation or PELV/SELV may well not benefit from bonding, but exporting (especially PME) Earth carries risks.

   - Andy.

Indeed, but depending where it ends up, it may well be earthed anyway.

It's a bit of a tangent, but there probably needs to be some good practice and EMC guidance created (given the rubbish radiated by a few accredited installations, EMC is not just an issue for DIY kits actually ) for folk who want a reliable installation and or find their solar panels cause interference to their own or their neighbours equipment.

Silly things like keeping the +- pairs together as they leave the panels and not creating a great loop antenna coupling in and out of the inverter will do wonders both for interference  egress and how well it survives after a nearby thunderstorm. Avoiding situations that could cause currents to be induced or picked up from external metalwork like fences etc. Insulated mounting clamps may actually be better in that regard. I'm not sure of the merits or not of plug in solar plugged in via some sort of filter, but its the sort of thing that should be looked at.

In terms of poor cable route and mounting onto  things that may import an external earth, a one turn accidental 'secondary' of a few square metres and a 'primary' of a km or so of more or less vertical lightning strike of a few tens of kA a few km or so away can induce voltages easily fatal to semiconductors, even big ones in inverters. Not as spectacular or glamorous perhaps as designing for nuclear EMP, but the physical problems of inducing voltages in remote wiring are similar and can make things weirdly unreliable without an obvious cure.

My point is that the cohort of new accidental installers who don't realize they are, will need to be able to get sensible un-biassed installation and fault finding  advice easily, or the internet will fill the gaps with rubbish and misdirection.

Mike.

Looks like the big boys are getting on the band wagon: https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source/news/plug-in-solar-panels-explained.html

(I'm not sure what change is supposed to be happening to BS 7671 for this summer ... given the normal times frames and the fact that AMD 4 is already out, it feels a bit optimistic (if indeed any change is actually required)).

   - Andy.

Time for a PAS (Publicly Available Specification) is a fast-tracked, BSI-developed technical standard in the UK, used to quickly establish best practices for emerging technologies, products, or services. Unlike formal British Standards (BS), a PAS is developed in collaboration with specific industry sponsors to address immediate market needs and often acts as a precursor to formal standardization.

AI helped me with the definition of a PAS

Its a good idea in terms of developing something quickly, but more easily hijacked by one sponsor.  However, despite the name most PAS  (there are quite a few, the official BSI  list is here )are still usually a copyright document you need to buy to read it, so not actually of much more interest than say a BS to the DIY installer.

Mike.

mapj1 said:

the official BSI  list is here )

That is interesting as it does not list 

PAS 63100:2024

Sergio Fernandez said:

That is interesting as it does not list 

PAS 63100:2024

There are a number of PASs not listed ... the reason for this is, if you look at the file properties, it was created in 2017, and is therefore cannot be current and comprehensive !

gkenyon said:

There are a number of PASs not listed

Including PAS 0, which became available in 2012.

Maybe it would be prudent for the BSI to have an up to date list of PAS documents and another which are for Public Consult?.

You can browse the BSI Library here for current PASs. (There seems to be no option to put them in numerical order.)

mapj1 said:

you need to buy to read it

Not sure about that. Clicking on a faintly random sample gives me a price of zero.