The units proposed are safe, in the fact that they need mains to work. So if you pull the plug you don't have live pins in your hand, and similarly if you have a mains outage, you cannot feed back into the mains to give some guy working on the circuit a shock. I am going to install one of these units, but have questions, particularly for the IET, as they may have had an input with government discussions. As a DIY person will be able to plug these in, there will have been no qualified person involved, so :- You will still need to fill out a G98 as you are connecting to the network. The present G98 needs qualification details from the Electrician installing it. Will this form be changed to allow an unqualified person to apply. 

Once you get the form at apply for a  DNO, will you be able to apply for export payment. Presently not allowed unless installed by a MCS certified Electrician, but of course it won't be. The rules say you can't export without these forms, but once plugged in, you will export on a nice day. My base load is only around 350w, and I fully expect to get 750w from my proposed set up. Can anyone in the know, let me know what the new proposals are going to be. Thanks

Time for a PAS (Publicly Available Specification) is a fast-tracked, BSI-developed technical standard in the UK, used to quickly establish best practices for emerging technologies, products, or services. Unlike formal British Standards (BS), a PAS is developed in collaboration with specific industry sponsors to address immediate market needs and often acts as a precursor to formal standardization.

AI helped me with the definition of a PAS

Its a good idea in terms of developing something quickly, but more easily hijacked by one sponsor.  However, despite the name most PAS  (there are quite a few, the official BSI  list is here )are still usually a copyright document you need to buy to read it, so not actually of much more interest than say a BS to the DIY installer.

Mike.

mapj1 said:

the official BSI  list is here )

That is interesting as it does not list 

PAS 63100:2024

Sergio Fernandez said:

That is interesting as it does not list 

PAS 63100:2024

There are a number of PASs not listed ... the reason for this is, if you look at the file properties, it was created in 2017, and is therefore cannot be current and comprehensive !

gkenyon said:

There are a number of PASs not listed

Including PAS 0, which became available in 2012.

Maybe it would be prudent for the BSI to have an up to date list of PAS documents and another which are for Public Consult?.

You can browse the BSI Library here for current PASs. (There seems to be no option to put them in numerical order.)

mapj1 said:

you need to buy to read it

Not sure about that. Clicking on a faintly random sample gives me a price of zero.

Chris Pearson said:

Not sure about that.

They are not all free. PAS 0 is free (so is BS 0). 

Here is one that's definitely not free: https://knowledge.bsigroup.com/products/pas-128-underground-utility-detection-verification-and-location-specification

And another: https://knowledge.bsigroup.com/products/professional-inspection-maintenance-cleaning-and-restoration-of-textile-floor-coverings-code-of-practice

I believe that many of the ones that are free are sponsored by government departments.

As a collective we know Balcony Solar PV(Other names/terms are available) is on the imminent horizon.  We know that they are being termed as an appliance rather than a small GenSet.  Therefore the issue we have is

 - Does BS7671 AMD 3 or 4 cover it properly….No
 - Does BS1363 3 pin UK plug cover it properly….No.  In fact states no GenSet
 - Does BS1362 fuse cover it properly….No
 - Do a PAS or similar cover it properly….No
 - Do the Fire Service sit on JPEL64 to advise….I am unsure
 - Should the Fire Service sit on JPEL64 and advise on Balcony Solar PV before it becomes an issue like Loft battery storage or E-Scotters.  In my opinion Yes
 - Should the Insurance Industry sit on JPEL64 and advise in some capacity on Balcony Solar PV before it becomes an issue like Loft battery storage or E-Scotters.  In my opinion Yes
 - If it is SOLD as DIY Balcony Solar PV then there is nothing to make ME check the CU or the whole installation vs an MCS/BS7671AMD4/PAS6300 approved roof install by a competent electrical engineer.

It is my honest opinion that we need some rules/regulations/guidance/product standard in place for UK Balcony Solar PV sooner rather than later.

As a collective we know Balcony Solar PV(Other names/terms are available) is on the imminent horizon.  We know that they are being termed as an appliance rather than a small GenSet.  Therefore the issue we have is

 - Does BS7671 AMD 3 or 4 cover it properly….No
 - Does BS1363 3 pin UK plug cover it properly….No.  In fact states no GenSet
 - Does BS1362 fuse cover it properly….No
 - Do a PAS or similar cover it properly….No
 - Do the Fire Service sit on JPEL64 to advise….I am unsure
 - Should the Fire Service sit on JPEL64 and advise on Balcony Solar PV before it becomes an issue like Loft battery storage or E-Scotters.  In my opinion Yes
 - Should the Insurance Industry sit on JPEL64 and advise in some capacity on Balcony Solar PV before it becomes an issue like Loft battery storage or E-Scotters.  In my opinion Yes
 - If it is SOLD as DIY Balcony Solar PV then there is nothing to make ME check the CU or the whole installation vs an MCS/BS7671AMD4/PAS6300 approved roof install by a competent electrical engineer.

It is my honest opinion that we need some rules/regulations/guidance/product standard in place for UK Balcony Solar PV sooner rather than later.

They are not sold with a battery pack, and as these are in the region of £2K, the market is not aimed at that. It is a basic starter kit with just panels and inverter.

but, these are available now and £1200 for the single battery model and falling. 

https://sunvault.co.uk/jet-greenark-pro-balcony-solar-battery-storage
Note the bit about plug in only and no electrician needed ...

"

Mike.

mapj1 said:

Plug-and-play, no electrician required

as it stands in the UK at the moment that could/should be

Plug and Pray

Interesting they describe LiFePO as being:

advanced semi-solid-state battery, which eliminates the flammable liquid electrolyte found in conventional batteries.

•  Zero Fire Risk – No thermal runaway, even under extreme conditions

•  No Smoke or Toxic Fumes – Safe for indoor and balcony installation

AJJewsbury said:

Interesting they describe LiFePO as being:

Interesting indeed. I believe all the Electrical Energy Storage System fires we know about, that have occurred here in the UK, have been Lithium Iron Phosphate ... I don't put that at a zero risk of fire!

Just because sales and marketing state something, it does not mean it is fact.  Take the GrenFell tragedy as an example.

See file called 1758018154544047.pdf.  They also mention Grounding several times which is not really a term used in BS7671

I do understand that North America say  Grounding and PDFUK people say Protective Earthing / Functional Earthing / Bonding

But surely if this is meant for the UK market they should use UK terminology or else we will start seeing phrases like "The Hot Wire" which is their term for Live/Line but to me it sound like any oxymoron as I would never want the wires of an install to be HOT, warm I can understand but not hot.

Hot just means alive, or 'live', while in my day job it either means energized with RF, or radioactive.. 

note we do already do see exactly this US-centric  language in instructions for things like generators that have been translated from the foreign for the UK market -   Hire a big set from Agrekko, and ask for a the  manual and the Cummins or Perkins American data you get sent uses  Ground and grounded, and hot and so on, in practice once you know, there is no problem with understanding it.

It is however worth throwing the makers advice on NE bonding away and doing it properly.

Mike

Sergio Fernandez said:

Should the Insurance Industry sit on JPEL64 and advise in some capacity on Balcony Solar PV before it becomes an issue like Loft battery storage

With fixed BESS in mind, I asked my insurers only a few days ago, "Do you impose any restrictions or conditions on solar PV installations please?"

The answer was, "There are no restriction in relation to Solar panels. You would need to ensure that the buildings sum insured is adequate to cover these."

Well no more so than a slew of other dangerous things folk routinely plug into their sockets already (those series connected outdoor fairy lights come to mind, and the not quite CE compliant phone charger that catch light with depressing regularity perhaps). 

I think we need to realize this is already happening and will happen more,  legal or not, and rather like main dealers wondering why folk buy second hand cars when new ones are so expensive, there will be a need for DNOs and disgruntled MCS installers  to make the best of things whatever happens.

If 'installation' t really has to be notified to anyone at all, there will need to be a less than 3 minute  un-notification process as well, so that when you fold it up and take it with you the registration does not persist at the wrong address. You might for example take it with you on a ten day self-catering holiday to save on the  bill at the caravan park, same as you might bring your own tinned food and 4g internet hub. 

Its probably simpler and more reliable not to bother too much at all, and just fix up only where it goes wrong.

Mike