Hello, looking for an answer to who decides if a chapel / church needs to wired in MICC cable or will FP200 be adequate ? I appreciate it should be fire resistant and MICC is smaller and looks great if installed properly , but I cant find any guidance anywhere
I have a question, on MICC in Churches - Life expectancy.
I first met Pyro, MICC cable, 57 years ago, on a steelworks student placement job (three conductors about 10mm d, per phase), but I went into Telecommunications. I visited the BICC factory nearly 40 years ago, in connection with zero halogen twisted pair MICC, but that factory is now closed. And I have done a few minor MICC installations and repairs.
So I know MICC is good stuff and copper water pipes pretty well go on for ever.
Our local Church was rewired in Pyro in 1966, and the majority of circuits are the lighting circuits, which were designed for ES 200W tungsten gls, and are now being changed over from 55W CFL to 24W ES led lamps, so the load requirement has reduced. There is no evidence of damp causing verdigris, except in one short location. It was installed by Engineers within the congregation who dried the cable ends, before terminating, to a greater degree than the Pyro specification.
The Church is planning to probably upgrade the heating from gas boilers to a heat pump, consequently would require a supply upgrade.
The Rector has said that as we are having some electrical work done, "should we have the whole building rewired?", knowing that traditional VIR wiring has had to be replaced at an earlier age.
My gut feeling is that Pyro could last hundreds of years, but I need some evidence of older installations, still working.
I have come across a reference to a 70 year old installation, but that is only 10 years on from where we are now, to get that far. The routine testing does show good IR results, so I am trying to find a somewhat older figure, to show ours could keep going, for a longer time.
I have heard of one military boiler house installation that had a failure, the caretaker polished the copper sheath, and after many decades, wore it away and damp got into the insulation so it failed.
Has anyone out there met any Pyro / MICC installations of a good age preferably nearer, or more than 80 years and still in excellent condition? I would like to hear about the longest.
Who can come up with the oldest?
Where we have a bit of verdigris, should I slide a bit of thin plastic between the cable and stonework, and perhaps apply clear varnish?
Many thanks
Andrew P. Jones
I have a question, on MICC in Churches - Life expectancy.
I first met Pyro, MICC cable, 57 years ago, on a steelworks student placement job (three conductors about 10mm d, per phase), but I went into Telecommunications. I visited the BICC factory nearly 40 years ago, in connection with zero halogen twisted pair MICC, but that factory is now closed. And I have done a few minor MICC installations and repairs.
So I know MICC is good stuff and copper water pipes pretty well go on for ever.
Our local Church was rewired in Pyro in 1966, and the majority of circuits are the lighting circuits, which were designed for ES 200W tungsten gls, and are now being changed over from 55W CFL to 24W ES led lamps, so the load requirement has reduced. There is no evidence of damp causing verdigris, except in one short location. It was installed by Engineers within the congregation who dried the cable ends, before terminating, to a greater degree than the Pyro specification.
The Church is planning to probably upgrade the heating from gas boilers to a heat pump, consequently would require a supply upgrade.
The Rector has said that as we are having some electrical work done, "should we have the whole building rewired?", knowing that traditional VIR wiring has had to be replaced at an earlier age.
My gut feeling is that Pyro could last hundreds of years, but I need some evidence of older installations, still working.
I have come across a reference to a 70 year old installation, but that is only 10 years on from where we are now, to get that far. The routine testing does show good IR results, so I am trying to find a somewhat older figure, to show ours could keep going, for a longer time.
I have heard of one military boiler house installation that had a failure, the caretaker polished the copper sheath, and after many decades, wore it away and damp got into the insulation so it failed.
Has anyone out there met any Pyro / MICC installations of a good age preferably nearer, or more than 80 years and still in excellent condition? I would like to hear about the longest.
Who can come up with the oldest?
Where we have a bit of verdigris, should I slide a bit of thin plastic between the cable and stonework, and perhaps apply clear varnish?
Many thanks
Andrew P. Jones
well amusingly, pyro (mineral insulated cable) is the only thing on this list of Raychem products that attracts a 'lifetime' warrenty.
The rest seem to be 5,10 or 20 years. Faults due to poor installation is not covered..
to compare https://uk.prysmian.com/media/news/cable-design.
Prysmian reckon 25 years for the sort o plastic covered cables we are more familiar with.
I'd be disappointed if it failed after twice that in benign conditions - even the twin and earth in my place is older than that and doing fine.
Mike.
Not my area, but what are the failure/repair mechanisms, and would a 'run to failure' / 'pre-placed repair kit' make useful sense?
Or would failures in place be 'high consequence' (as opposed to cables being over stone work with low fire/incident risk)
In the good old days one would have fuse wire ready at the fuse board,...
Prysmian reckon 25 years for the sort o plastic covered cables we are more familiar with.
I'd be disappointed if it failed after twice that in benign conditions - even the twin and earth in my place is older than that and doing fine.
Mine is 44 years old.
Buildings are not permanent structures. I discovered recently that UPVC windows, etc. have an expected lifespan of 35 years, which seems about right. More astonishingly, the lifespan of whole buildings could be as little as 30 years link.
Even if buildings do last longer, if this parish is anything to go by, houses tend to get extensive refurbishments every 40 - 50 years. The church, which is only 92 years old had fairly extensive repairs about 5 years ago. The original vicarage, which was a little older, lasted about 80 years.
According to Wikipedia (so it must be true), Pyrotenax started production in 1937. Given that not much would have been installed until after WW2, I doubt that you will find any installations which are more than 80 years old.
In answer to the Rector's question, I would say that if it ain't bust, don't fix it. If somebody else asks the same question in 20 years, you may be able to give the answer. :-)
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