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ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS

Can we say that the CEng and IEng be considered equal titles in professional status or IEng is inferior than CEng.

As the Application Form for both CEng and IEng is same.

0 Nouman Abid Chuhan over 8 years ago

Michael Prewett:

EurIng and the european standards are actually equivalent to IEng and all based on Batchelors level. However ECUK does not recognise this as CEng which is a higher standard would not have anything to link it too. There are continuing discussions about this issue.

I am really surprised to know that EurIng is equivalent to IEng. As per my information, IET takes application for EurIng only from CEng.
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0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago
Criteria for the EUR ING Title

After a secondary education at a high level validated by one or more official certificates, normally awarded at the age of about 18 years, a minimum total period of seven years' formation - education, training and experience -is required by FEANI for the EUR ING title. This formation consists of:

Minimum three years of engineering education successfully completed by an official degree, in a discipline/programme and given by a university (U) or other recognized body at university level, recognized by FEANI

Minimum two years of valid professional experience (E).

The minimum standards for Education are based on the following criteria: B + 3 U i.e. the completion of an engineering programme, containing at least a three year university programme/Bologna 180 ECTS, based on entrance condition B. For different categories of Education, FEANI considers different formation standards

The degree needs to be recognized under Washington Accord.

The UK degree has to be accredited for CEng in order to be accepted by FEANI

They also have special cases etc.
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0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Sparkingchip

Hello Moshe,

The UK does not
conform with FEANI, when I was a member I was in Group 2 as I
Eng,

Now there seems to
be only Eur Ing.

If you
were in the Other 31 European countries, your comments would
apply.

However in
the UK & Ireland the ruling is :

In Ireland and the United
Kingdom,^[4]

"the Chartered
Engineer title is a prerequisite requirement for an
application for the EUR ING title".

2. Who Can Apply for the
EUR ING Title

Application is open only
to individuals if they are members of an engineering association
represented in FEANI through a National Member (see section
"Members").

Your comments on 5K to 10 K,
I Eng does not surprise me. I will complete the
background on the formation of IET and I Eng on a separate
mailing.

I am rapidly losing faith
with IET as a Professional Engineering & Technology Engineering
Institute.

I am retired, at 67,
therefore i do not need professional recognition, my past
engineering achievements which have been operating for for over 40
years are proof enough.

FEANI
REQUESTS:

Non active
engineers

However, EUR INGs that
are over 70 years old are moved from the Register to a separate
“passive“ list as they are expected to have retired/be no longer
active as a professional engineer (unless they contact FEANI to
correct this).

EC UK requests non active
engineers not to register - each tear - if they are not
engineering.

May be IET should open a
passive register.

People join PEIs for 2
reasons:

1/ a plastic card to get
past HR job selection & C Eng to get a higher salary than I Eng
at HR job selection.

FEANI :
WHY AN ENGINEERING
CARD?

Mobility is important
for Engineers because of the demand for flexible deployment on
an international basis and different availability of engineers
across national borders. Engineers and Employers require a tool
that shows a comparable educational profile whose recognition is
based on international standards and is easy to use for
professionals and employers.

Remark: Please note that
the Engineering Card and the EUR ING title are two different
concepts

The Engineering Card is
already available in 6 countries

The second is to keep in
contact with engineering, to communicate and to learn of what
others achieve.

IET has let down the I
Eng and young non University Professional Engineers or University
engineers who do not have M Eng.

I Make Eur Ing grade on
two separate disciplines; but the UK blocks me from being
registered, even though I worked in Europe or European projects for
50 years and I have a taught Masters and a UK Masters approved
monologue.

No further
comments.

Regards

John Gowman MIET - (all
titles resigned)
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0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Sparkingchip

Hello Moshe,

The UK does not
conform with FEANI, when I was a member I was in Group 2 as I
Eng,

Now there seems to
be only Eur Ing.

If you
were in the Other 31 European countries, your comments would
apply.

However in
the UK & Ireland the ruling is :

In Ireland and the United
Kingdom,^[4]

"the Chartered
Engineer title is a prerequisite requirement for an
application for the EUR ING title".

2. Who Can Apply for the
EUR ING Title

Application is open only
to individuals if they are members of an engineering association
represented in FEANI through a National Member (see section
"Members").

Your comments on 5K to 10 K,
I Eng does not surprise me. I will complete the
background on the formation of IET and I Eng on a separate
mailing.

I am rapidly losing faith
with IET as a Professional Engineering & Technology Engineering
Institute.

I am retired, at 67,
therefore i do not need professional recognition, my past
engineering achievements which have been operating for for over 40
years are proof enough.

FEANI
REQUESTS:

Non active
engineers

However, EUR INGs that
are over 70 years old are moved from the Register to a separate
“passive“ list as they are expected to have retired/be no longer
active as a professional engineer (unless they contact FEANI to
correct this).

EC UK requests non active
engineers not to register - each tear - if they are not
engineering.

May be IET should open a
passive register.

People join PEIs for 2
reasons:

1/ a plastic card to get
past HR job selection & C Eng to get a higher salary than I Eng
at HR job selection.

FEANI :
WHY AN ENGINEERING
CARD?

Mobility is important
for Engineers because of the demand for flexible deployment on
an international basis and different availability of engineers
across national borders. Engineers and Employers require a tool
that shows a comparable educational profile whose recognition is
based on international standards and is easy to use for
professionals and employers.

Remark: Please note that
the Engineering Card and the EUR ING title are two different
concepts

The Engineering Card is
already available in 6 countries

The second is to keep in
contact with engineering, to communicate and to learn of what
others achieve.

IET has let down the I
Eng and young non University Professional Engineers or University
engineers who do not have M Eng.

I Make Eur Ing grade on
two separate disciplines; but the UK blocks me from being
registered, even though I worked in Europe or European projects for
50 years and I have a taught Masters and a UK Masters approved
monologue.

No further
comments.

Regards

John Gowman MIET - (all
titles resigned)
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Sparkingchip

Hello Moshe,

The UK does not
conform with FEANI, when I was a member I was in Group 2 as I
Eng,

Now there seems to
be only Eur Ing.

If you
were in the Other 31 European countries, your comments would
apply.

However in
the UK & Ireland the ruling is :

In Ireland and the United
Kingdom,^[4]

"the Chartered
Engineer title is a prerequisite requirement for an
application for the EUR ING title".

2. Who Can Apply for the
EUR ING Title

Application is open only
to individuals if they are members of an engineering association
represented in FEANI through a National Member (see section
"Members").

Your comments on 5K to 10 K,
I Eng does not surprise me. I will complete the
background on the formation of IET and I Eng on a separate
mailing.

I am rapidly losing faith
with IET as a Professional Engineering & Technology Engineering
Institute.

I am retired, at 67,
therefore i do not need professional recognition, my past
engineering achievements which have been operating for for over 40
years are proof enough.

FEANI
REQUESTS:

Non active
engineers

However, EUR INGs that
are over 70 years old are moved from the Register to a separate
“passive“ list as they are expected to have retired/be no longer
active as a professional engineer (unless they contact FEANI to
correct this).

EC UK requests non active
engineers not to register - each tear - if they are not
engineering.

May be IET should open a
passive register.

People join PEIs for 2
reasons:

1/ a plastic card to get
past HR job selection & C Eng to get a higher salary than I Eng
at HR job selection.

FEANI :
WHY AN ENGINEERING
CARD?

Mobility is important
for Engineers because of the demand for flexible deployment on
an international basis and different availability of engineers
across national borders. Engineers and Employers require a tool
that shows a comparable educational profile whose recognition is
based on international standards and is easy to use for
professionals and employers.

Remark: Please note that
the Engineering Card and the EUR ING title are two different
concepts

The Engineering Card is
already available in 6 countries

The second is to keep in
contact with engineering, to communicate and to learn of what
others achieve.

IET has let down the I
Eng and young non University Professional Engineers or University
engineers who do not have M Eng.

I Make Eur Ing grade on
two separate disciplines; but the UK blocks me from being
registered, even though I worked in Europe or European projects for
50 years and I have a taught Masters and a UK Masters approved
monologue.

No further
comments.

Regards

John Gowman MIET - (all
titles resigned)
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Sparkingchip

Hello Moshe,

The UK does not
conform with FEANI, when I was a member I was in Group 2 as I
Eng,

Now there seems to
be only Eur Ing.

If you
were in the Other 31 European countries, your comments would
apply.

However in
the UK & Ireland the ruling is :

In Ireland and the United
Kingdom,^[4]

"the Chartered
Engineer title is a prerequisite requirement for an
application for the EUR ING title".

2. Who Can Apply for the
EUR ING Title

Application is open only
to individuals if they are members of an engineering association
represented in FEANI through a National Member (see section
"Members").

Your comments on 5K to 10 K,
I Eng does not surprise me. I will complete the
background on the formation of IET and I Eng on a separate
mailing.

I am rapidly losing faith
with IET as a Professional Engineering & Technology Engineering
Institute.

I am retired, at 67,
therefore i do not need professional recognition, my past
engineering achievements which have been operating for for over 40
years are proof enough.

FEANI
REQUESTS:

Non active
engineers

However, EUR INGs that
are over 70 years old are moved from the Register to a separate
“passive“ list as they are expected to have retired/be no longer
active as a professional engineer (unless they contact FEANI to
correct this).

EC UK requests non active
engineers not to register - each tear - if they are not
engineering.

May be IET should open a
passive register.

People join PEIs for 2
reasons:

1/ a plastic card to get
past HR job selection & C Eng to get a higher salary than I Eng
at HR job selection.

FEANI :
WHY AN ENGINEERING
CARD?

Mobility is important
for Engineers because of the demand for flexible deployment on
an international basis and different availability of engineers
across national borders. Engineers and Employers require a tool
that shows a comparable educational profile whose recognition is
based on international standards and is easy to use for
professionals and employers.

Remark: Please note that
the Engineering Card and the EUR ING title are two different
concepts

The Engineering Card is
already available in 6 countries

The second is to keep in
contact with engineering, to communicate and to learn of what
others achieve.

IET has let down the I
Eng and young non University Professional Engineers or University
engineers who do not have M Eng.

I Make Eur Ing grade on
two separate disciplines; but the UK blocks me from being
registered, even though I worked in Europe or European projects for
50 years and I have a taught Masters and a UK Masters approved
monologue.

No further
comments.

Regards

John Gowman MIET - (all
titles resigned)
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0 gkenyon over 8 years ago

Simon Barker:

Peter Miller:

Moshe,

Your links to the advertised engineering jobs raises an interesting point. Most of the jobs ask for either IEng or CEng for the same specific job description, whereas UKSpec defines CEng and IEng with different competencies. This seems odd to me, but then again this is only a small sample of currently advertised jobs.

The IEng and CEng requirements may be different, but whenever I have read UKSpec, it's been clear that a CEng should be capable of doing anything that an IEng could do. So there isn't any discrepancy there.

Apologies, but I don't agree here ... " a CEng should be capable of doing anything that an IEng could do" is not really the correct statement to make?

I think this should read "A CEng has the competences of an IEng".

Even in specialised sector-specific Engineering Institutions, for example CIBSE, RAeS, SOE, the sectors are so wide that the "competences to do your job" are in no way the same as the "competences to be a registered engineer".

This is why it's no good getting hung up on the "which is better" discussion.

Perhaps the real discussion we should be having is whether it should be a requirement for both IEng and CEng to get more "on the ground" (EngTech-type) experience as part of their competences and formation? A better understanding of the practicalities of the profession certainly helps, and I'm not sure that the "straight to the office from University" approach that may happen in some cases is actually the best thing for the profession. The reasoning behind this, is that Engineering is a Craft ... and it's very difficult to get a grasp of that without understanding the Artesan's role.
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0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Sparkingchip

Bravo
Kevin,

Both
grades are a foot on the ladder recognition of a PE's competence to
start in a responsible engineering post.

An I
Eng has a solid grounding in industry, codes and practices a MEng C
Eng has a proven practical experience in report writing, advanced
mathemetics and a specialisation now adays an IT programme that
takes up to 18 months to master. both require responsibility and
innovative solutions to problems that arrive.

Note
that innovation is rare today in engineering as codes have to be
respected. I created a document management of the companies
requirements in codes , I catalogued over 2000 codes!

Both I
Eng & C Eng are important on a project and are
complementary.

What we
are seeing on these blogs is a certain attitude of C Engs who want
this grade to be a superior grade showing a mid career competence
to engineer. I Eng and C Eng are only the first responsibility
grades. (L + M + a short experience).

Taking
my career, I have never worked in what I first studied.

What I
learnt was how to be responsible, how to respect my peer
Technologists, Scientists, Engineers and Technicians and how to
learn from others.

The Master students I mentored were industrial engineers,
they undertook a project in nuclear dismantling, they got first
jobs in the food industry, car manufacture and accounting. The head
of division was I Eng equivalent, when I worked in Fusion , the UK
Fusion Director was HNC.

The whole UK attitude is out of line with Europe and the
States.

We need to define very quickly what we need to do to recover
the PE registration. - BREXIT will need engineers!

IET has not paid much attention to the PEs who come up
through apprenticeship and HNC. IET has also not helped much with
BSc qualified PEs aiming at C Eng grade.

As people on this blog have statedthat there are 90% or
more I Eng type PEs not joining PEIs . Perhaps we should call IET
& EC UK for the statistics and then get to task in making our
PEI of interest to non registered Professional Engineers.

People are mindful of their own careers in making decisions.
Many C Eng see their registration as a social status and not as a
ticket to advancement in engineering.

I've done my bit in engineering, I will try and give
something back to the next generation of PEs. I was in the team
that started ITEME, Incorporated Engineer and the amalgamation of
Engineers & Technologists that led to the true E&T
Institute IIE.

engineering can be fun, lets sell the story to all new
PEs.

Good luck,

John Gowman. MIET

* ITEME C 1G 293 Parts 1, 2, 3, Electrical endorsement
+

* IEng BSc (HNC)

*BA - 5 years studies in new subjects - mathematics &
materials science

*Ingénieur
Chercheur with a taught master and Monologue- Master approved
by a top UK Engineering University.

C Eng refused 5 times (did not request C Eng IET as my
prospective employer did not recognise IET)

I could be C Eng twice and Eur Ing ( i'ma bilingual) but the
UK system failed me - no sponsors.
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0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Sparkingchip

Bravo
Kevin,

Both
grades are a foot on the ladder recognition of a PE's competence to
start in a responsible engineering post.

An I
Eng has a solid grounding in industry, codes and practices a MEng C
Eng has a proven practical experience in report writing, advanced
mathemetics and a specialisation now adays an IT programme that
takes up to 18 months to master. both require responsibility and
innovative solutions to problems that arrive.

Note
that innovation is rare today in engineering as codes have to be
respected. I created a document management of the companies
requirements in codes , I catalogued over 2000 codes!

Both I
Eng & C Eng are important on a project and are
complementary.

What we
are seeing on these blogs is a certain attitude of C Engs who want
this grade to be a superior grade showing a mid career competence
to engineer. I Eng and C Eng are only the first responsibility
grades. (L + M + a short experience).

Taking
my career, I have never worked in what I first studied.

What I
learnt was how to be responsible, how to respect my peer
Technologists, Scientists, Engineers and Technicians and how to
learn from others.

The Master students I mentored were industrial engineers,
they undertook a project in nuclear dismantling, they got first
jobs in the food industry, car manufacture and accounting. The head
of division was I Eng equivalent, when I worked in Fusion , the UK
Fusion Director was HNC.

The whole UK attitude is out of line with Europe and the
States.

We need to define very quickly what we need to do to recover
the PE registration. - BREXIT will need engineers!

IET has not paid much attention to the PEs who come up
through apprenticeship and HNC. IET has also not helped much with
BSc qualified PEs aiming at C Eng grade.

As people on this blog have statedthat there are 90% or
more I Eng type PEs not joining PEIs . Perhaps we should call IET
& EC UK for the statistics and then get to task in making our
PEI of interest to non registered Professional Engineers.

People are mindful of their own careers in making decisions.
Many C Eng see their registration as a social status and not as a
ticket to advancement in engineering.

I've done my bit in engineering, I will try and give
something back to the next generation of PEs. I was in the team
that started ITEME, Incorporated Engineer and the amalgamation of
Engineers & Technologists that led to the true E&T
Institute IIE.

engineering can be fun, lets sell the story to all new
PEs.

Good luck,

John Gowman. MIET

* ITEME C 1G 293 Parts 1, 2, 3, Electrical endorsement
+

* IEng BSc (HNC)

*BA - 5 years studies in new subjects - mathematics &
materials science

*Ingénieur
Chercheur with a taught master and Monologue- Master approved
by a top UK Engineering University.

C Eng refused 5 times (did not request C Eng IET as my
prospective employer did not recognise IET)

I could be C Eng twice and Eur Ing ( i'ma bilingual) but the
UK system failed me - no sponsors.
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel
0 Former Community Member over 8 years ago in reply to Sparkingchip

Bravo
Kevin,

Both
grades are a foot on the ladder recognition of a PE's competence to
start in a responsible engineering post.

An I
Eng has a solid grounding in industry, codes and practices a MEng C
Eng has a proven practical experience in report writing, advanced
mathemetics and a specialisation now adays an IT programme that
takes up to 18 months to master. both require responsibility and
innovative solutions to problems that arrive.

Note
that innovation is rare today in engineering as codes have to be
respected. I created a document management of the companies
requirements in codes , I catalogued over 2000 codes!

Both I
Eng & C Eng are important on a project and are
complementary.

What we
are seeing on these blogs is a certain attitude of C Engs who want
this grade to be a superior grade showing a mid career competence
to engineer. I Eng and C Eng are only the first responsibility
grades. (L + M + a short experience).

Taking
my career, I have never worked in what I first studied.

What I
learnt was how to be responsible, how to respect my peer
Technologists, Scientists, Engineers and Technicians and how to
learn from others.

The Master students I mentored were industrial engineers,
they undertook a project in nuclear dismantling, they got first
jobs in the food industry, car manufacture and accounting. The head
of division was I Eng equivalent, when I worked in Fusion , the UK
Fusion Director was HNC.

The whole UK attitude is out of line with Europe and the
States.

We need to define very quickly what we need to do to recover
the PE registration. - BREXIT will need engineers!

IET has not paid much attention to the PEs who come up
through apprenticeship and HNC. IET has also not helped much with
BSc qualified PEs aiming at C Eng grade.

As people on this blog have statedthat there are 90% or
more I Eng type PEs not joining PEIs . Perhaps we should call IET
& EC UK for the statistics and then get to task in making our
PEI of interest to non registered Professional Engineers.

People are mindful of their own careers in making decisions.
Many C Eng see their registration as a social status and not as a
ticket to advancement in engineering.

I've done my bit in engineering, I will try and give
something back to the next generation of PEs. I was in the team
that started ITEME, Incorporated Engineer and the amalgamation of
Engineers & Technologists that led to the true E&T
Institute IIE.

engineering can be fun, lets sell the story to all new
PEs.

Good luck,

John Gowman. MIET

* ITEME C 1G 293 Parts 1, 2, 3, Electrical endorsement
+

* IEng BSc (HNC)

*BA - 5 years studies in new subjects - mathematics &
materials science

*Ingénieur
Chercheur with a taught master and Monologue- Master approved
by a top UK Engineering University.

C Eng refused 5 times (did not request C Eng IET as my
prospective employer did not recognise IET)

I could be C Eng twice and Eur Ing ( i'ma bilingual) but the
UK system failed me - no sponsors.
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

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ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS

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