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ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS

Can we say that the CEng and IEng be considered equal titles in professional status or IEng is inferior than CEng.

As the Application Form for both CEng and IEng is same.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    Moshe Waserman:
    Daniel,

    Many colleges and university's have limit on credit transfer, they will allow up to 75% of the degree to be transferred credit as long as the credit matches the accepting institutions program didnt pass the limitation in years, how old and has appropriate acreditation. So there is no contradiction. Even if you try to earn second bachelors degree you will be allowed to transfer 90 of the 120 credits required.( except the big 3 colleges  in US, Excelsior College accepts 116 of the 120 credits in transfer)

    The policy is determined by the accepting institution. Some can reject completely some can grant partial credit and some can grant full credit etc.

    As to my Bachelors degree:

    On the diploma it states degree of  Bachelor's in Electronic Engineering Technology.  The College calls it Bachelors of Technology degree.

    It has 139 semester credits distributed the following way:

    53 Semester Credits: General Education, Math, Sciences, Humanities and Social Sciences.

    63 Semester Credits: Electronics Engineering Technology.

    23 Semester Credits: Computer Engineering Technology.

    Typical US Bachelors degree is 120 semester credits.  We have BA - Bachelors of Art, BSc bachelors of Science and as you see Bachelors of Technology degrees and there also BSW such as Bachelors in Social Work. The difference between bachelors of science and bachelors of technology is the concentration, the BSc concentrates heavier of physics and other science classes, the Bachelor of Technology concentrates heavier on Technology and other practical or applied classes.


    Today I can use BEET or BTEE   to describe  Bachelors degree in Electronics Engineering Technology.

    One of my other credentials from EU it also was evaluated as BEng(hon) I can put it as well but it creates confusion.

    Our College's Institute also offered an Associate in Applied Science degree in Engineering Technology as a 2 year FT or 4 Years PT and usually the persons who earned the AASEET degree (first 2 years of BEET or BCET degree) would continue for additional 2 years to earn the BEET degree. So in US its a bachelors degree and I never tried to compare it to the canadian system, I don't know what is canadian equivalent as it has additional year and more credit hours then a 3 year diploma.

    My LCGI in electronics was earned based on my Air Force Technician and Advanced Technician education (It had to be evaluated by NARIC UK) and years of experience that satisfied C&G to award LCGI in Electronics. Before that I completed vocational high school 12 forms with a trend of 4 years in Electronics. I also studied in IOU and Technicon - Israeli Institute of Technology and even at ICS what got me in to Institution of the Engineers and Technicians in London in 1984.


    I will gladly answer other questions or concerns, clarifications etc.


    ​So Moshe,   Even after all your response,   I guess you are actually saying that you received many Semester credits using your GCGI  and LCGI'S,. which allowed you to enter the final year of the 4 year programme for your Bachelor of Technology Degree and which most likely you completed in a year.? 


    Yes or no.


    Daniel


     




     

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Daniel , Yes that is correct.


    My college allowed me to transfer credit that matched the program and many credits were awarded for C&G awards. I don't remember exactly but I think I got 101 semester credits transferred out of 139 and completed the degree in about a year. I also earned from start a diploma in Broadcast Engineering from the same college that is about 40 semester credits.

    I submitted to college transcripts from Air Force Technology School(undergraduate), The Technion - Israel Institute of Technology, Israeli Open University, and C&G awards.

    BTW the only C&G award that I earned via EngC registration is MCGI.

    Many colleges set their own rules taking in to the account the compliance with the state licensing/approval and accreditation requirements.

    So again I'm not contradicting myself when I state that some colleges and universities accept in to final year of degree if a person wants a second bachelors degree.

    Also the same university will accept GCGI in to Masters degree program or Post graduate diploma if the person wants to advance further their education.

    Hope this clarifies what i mean by how GCGI is a BEng degree equivalent and yet may allow entry in to final year of university and / or Masters degree program.

    As a leading international education professional and a senior evaluator who has over 30 years of experience in admissions and administration including a top business school and university in USA stated in the evaluation report by a NACES member agency in USA. The Judgment of the agency was that the GCGI was equivalent to Bachelor of Science degree from Regionally Accredited US University.

    Most of the universities and government employers in the USA rely on NACES agencies when it comes to foreign credentials evaluation.

    Most universities and colleges state their credit transfer policy on their web site and catalogs.

    The sutuation is not static but dinamic so things and definitions, recognitions  change with the time. 



  • Cross post:  

    EngTech and Licentiateship (LCGI)


    communities.theiet.org/.../13743


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Andrew,

    I remember some of this discussions. I always promoted the City and Guilds awards.I felt there is a value in these awards and it helped the recipients.

    It was was in 2013 almost 4 years ego. You can find similar discussions with my input in 2006 or 2007 as well. 

    I think in 2014 its was just less then a year since City and Guilds discontinued the Senior Awards direct application rout and introduced 

    the Professional Recognition Awards by the similar name but readjusted/redesigned with additional accreditation by Ofqual. City and Guilds was offering the new PRA's awards via approved/accredited centers only.

    In 2014 this was shifted to approved centers and for some awards offered by a very limited number of centers

    In the past  many PRI's used to advertise to the registered Engineers the City and Guilds awards offered based on the level of registration.

    City and guilds offer Graduate Diploma in Engineering and Post Graduate Diploma in Engineering.

    cdn.cityandguilds.com/.../9210-01_L6_Diploma_Qualification_handbook_v2-1.pdf

    "The Graduate and Post Graduate Diplomas in Engineering have been developed for those undergoing training or those employed in Civil, Electrical or Mechanical Engineering. The qualifications aim to reflect the international nature of the knowledge and skills and activities needed for different countries or cultures. These qualifications are the City & Guilds successor qualifications to the Engineering Council examinations (9107 series).

    They have been designed to meet the UK-SPEC requirements and to be recognized by the UK professional engineering institutions"


    I don't work for City and Guilds nor for any of their centers, and all my comments are in personal capacity of someone who appreciates what these awards did for my colleagues and myself.

    I share the anecdotal experiences and opinions. Others contribute to the discussion as well. I hope its helpful info.

    Its just a personal experiences and opinion. 


    Moshe Waserman BTEE, MCGI, CEng MBCS, MIET, CBT

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Sparkingchip

    Ref : Simon
    Baker,

     

    *« If you have a
    degree in engineering or something technology-related, and work in
    engineering or technology, then you just need to find someone who
    will sign the form. »


    You confirm what I have
    been complaining against.

    You are
    a member of
    a restrictive,
    selective
    club, tough on the
    others. I’m alright jack.
    - *« no reason to try
    to keep me out of their club. »

     


    & EngTech
    and Licentiateship (LCGI)


    There is enough evidence
    to show that IET, PEIs and the ECUK, are serving only the UK
    population of university educated, trained professional engineers.
    As I have pointed out, you can work hard, study by any means
    possible and achieve great engineering feats, yet be barred from
    job selection, because you do not belong to the elite subjective,
    CEng private club.

    On the other hand you can
    drift through “uni”, without making much effort, just go to all the
    lectures and do the set work. Then get into a cosy job by using old
    boy relations, and be CEng at 26 as Simon points out.

     

    Where I have worked, the
    British engineers were glad to leave your club, to work according
    to their competences and experience.
    When not in the UK, you
    are still governed by UK regulations.
    However, to join this
    CEng club has no value outside of the UK.

     

    To join this UK club in
    order to work in the UK you need friends, and have to buy
    indulgences.

    You belong to the 19th
    Century; you are ruining UK professional engineering. The UK needs
    better than this.

     

    From these blogs we see
    that the majority of CEng do not meet UK-Spec; they work in
    protected industries or authorities and close the gates on others
    who are equally or more competent.


    As you
    said :  
    Simon
    Baker, 
    *« If you have a
    degree in engineering or something technology-related, and work in
    engineering or technology, then you just need to find someone who
    will sign the form. »    -  
    *« no reason to try to
    keep me out of their club. »;

    this is reason enough to
    stop this charade of CEng registration and CEng superior to IEng
    bullying.

    Any professional engineer
    who has studied, passed academic examinations and gained
    professional experience should be a registered PE. No titles
    needed.

     

    All of our master
    students on gaining their “Mastère”, said yes we know that now we
    can go and learn a Metier, but we are incapable of being
    independent engineers until we get experience.

    As an apprentice trained
    Eng Tech I was independent and innovating from my first
    day.

     

    No, Technicians and I Eng
    are not equal, but technicians can go on to be I Eng after studying
    and experience.

    No, I Eng and C Eng are
    not equal on the day of passing their BSc or MEng, but an I Eng can
    become CEng after further studies and Experience.

     

    Managers are not
    CEng                            
    Why not an IET sub title CEng manager

    Professors are not
    CEng                          
    Why not an IET sub title CEng academic

    Retired PEs are not CEng
    or IEng.         

    Ref: Andy Millar:
    "Emeritus CEng" when
     retired.

     

    CEng is a current,
    practicing engineering, status for one year only.

    IET does not protect its
    I Eng MIET; it bows down to those that mock it, just for
    prestige.

     

    I want nothing to do with
    the UK CEng it’s worthless. You have justified my observations in
    this blog.

     

    What do we want from a
    PEI?

    Who should, and how to
    register young professional engineers in the UK, that is the real
    question?

     

    How do you face up to
    BREXIT: - by engineering.

    Who are the Engineers we
    need: - they are technicians BSc, MEng and
    technologists.

    Where do we find them:
    not in PEIs in the UK, you have confirmed this fact. The majority
    are not ECUK registered, therefore ECUK has failed.

     

    I’m all right Jack, do
    not change anything, or else we might lose our status and
    prestige.

     

    In philosophy a well
    presented documented argument is irrefutable, so is the counter
    argument.


    ·        
    ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL
    IN STATUS can be argued for infinitum.


    ·        
    Professional registration
    matters
    is not arguable, it is a necessity for
    BREXIT.

    Stop quibbling and sort
    out this mess.

     


    In the light of your
    answer, shouldn't the EC UK close down all other their licensed
    PEIs because the IET
    UK would be enough to cater for all disciplines of
    Engineering
    .
    Reply : Barry Brooks :
    solutions are needed to
    minimise the impact of Brexit on the scientific and engineering
    environment.

    So,
    collaboration is the approach for the time being, as far as I can
    see!


    Barry Brooks : Re: Is IET
    suitable for Mechanical Engineers

    Whilst the name, IET, does
    not specify electrical or electronic engineering, those disciplines
    remain at the heart of our membership, but, reflecting the purpose
    of the IET, increasingly our members have much wider backgrounds
    and roles in industry and academia. 

    The
    IET is flexible and evolves to meet the needs of our members, and
    the society in which we all work, so mechanical, chemical, bio,
    nano-, materials, nuclear, civil, structural, railway engineers are
    all welcome!

     

    Professor J D M Watson CBE
    FREng FICE MSc DPhil CEng

    Asks what our learned
    society needs for the future.

     

    Try some basic
    management:

     

    Six Sigma –
    SCRAP


    1.      
    Stand back and review


    2.      
    Collect all information


    3.      
    Reflect on what is necessary or not


    4.      
    Apraise and sort and dispose of


    5.      
    Pause and reflect before you start again.

     

    QA : continual
    assessement for improvement

     

    Change is needed urgently,
    the choice is for MIETs to make.

     

    Moshe,

     I have had CEng
    refused by two PEIs 5 times by peer reviewers, none of which meet
    UKSpec.

     

    The first PEI members
    blocked all IET members from recruiting, as it called for CEng
    IMECHE.

    This same organisation
    uses IET for lobbying and promoting a lame duck project that will
    kill off UK scientific nuclear R&D.

    IET will do anything for
    prestige, except protect its members.

     

    When a system fails it
    has to be reviewed not covered up to protect incumbent
    members.

    My career was destroyed
    by incumbent people who plagiarised my name and failed in
    engineering. They were so powerful, EU Engineering Diplomats, that
    no action could be taken against them.

     

    This attitude of
    untouchable CEng has to stop.

     


    J Gowman, BA MIET

    Stop Blogging, start acting,
    its your future.




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Sparkingchip

    Ref : Simon
    Baker,

     

    *« If you have a
    degree in engineering or something technology-related, and work in
    engineering or technology, then you just need to find someone who
    will sign the form. »


    You confirm what I have
    been complaining against.

    You are
    a member of
    a restrictive,
    selective
    club, tough on the
    others. I’m alright jack.
    - *« no reason to try
    to keep me out of their club. »

     


    & EngTech
    and Licentiateship (LCGI)


    There is enough evidence
    to show that IET, PEIs and the ECUK, are serving only the UK
    population of university educated, trained professional engineers.
    As I have pointed out, you can work hard, study by any means
    possible and achieve great engineering feats, yet be barred from
    job selection, because you do not belong to the elite subjective,
    CEng private club.

    On the other hand you can
    drift through “uni”, without making much effort, just go to all the
    lectures and do the set work. Then get into a cosy job by using old
    boy relations, and be CEng at 26 as Simon points out.

     

    Where I have worked, the
    British engineers were glad to leave your club, to work according
    to their competences and experience.
    When not in the UK, you
    are still governed by UK regulations.
    However, to join this
    CEng club has no value outside of the UK.

     

    To join this UK club in
    order to work in the UK you need friends, and have to buy
    indulgences.

    You belong to the 19th
    Century; you are ruining UK professional engineering. The UK needs
    better than this.

     

    From these blogs we see
    that the majority of CEng do not meet UK-Spec; they work in
    protected industries or authorities and close the gates on others
    who are equally or more competent.


    As you
    said :  
    Simon
    Baker, 
    *« If you have a
    degree in engineering or something technology-related, and work in
    engineering or technology, then you just need to find someone who
    will sign the form. »    -  
    *« no reason to try to
    keep me out of their club. »;

    this is reason enough to
    stop this charade of CEng registration and CEng superior to IEng
    bullying.

    Any professional engineer
    who has studied, passed academic examinations and gained
    professional experience should be a registered PE. No titles
    needed.

     

    All of our master
    students on gaining their “Mastère”, said yes we know that now we
    can go and learn a Metier, but we are incapable of being
    independent engineers until we get experience.

    As an apprentice trained
    Eng Tech I was independent and innovating from my first
    day.

     

    No, Technicians and I Eng
    are not equal, but technicians can go on to be I Eng after studying
    and experience.

    No, I Eng and C Eng are
    not equal on the day of passing their BSc or MEng, but an I Eng can
    become CEng after further studies and Experience.

     

    Managers are not
    CEng                            
    Why not an IET sub title CEng manager

    Professors are not
    CEng                          
    Why not an IET sub title CEng academic

    Retired PEs are not CEng
    or IEng.         

    Ref: Andy Millar:
    "Emeritus CEng" when
     retired.

     

    CEng is a current,
    practicing engineering, status for one year only.

    IET does not protect its
    I Eng MIET; it bows down to those that mock it, just for
    prestige.

     

    I want nothing to do with
    the UK CEng it’s worthless. You have justified my observations in
    this blog.

     

    What do we want from a
    PEI?

    Who should, and how to
    register young professional engineers in the UK, that is the real
    question?

     

    How do you face up to
    BREXIT: - by engineering.

    Who are the Engineers we
    need: - they are technicians BSc, MEng and
    technologists.

    Where do we find them:
    not in PEIs in the UK, you have confirmed this fact. The majority
    are not ECUK registered, therefore ECUK has failed.

     

    I’m all right Jack, do
    not change anything, or else we might lose our status and
    prestige.

     

    In philosophy a well
    presented documented argument is irrefutable, so is the counter
    argument.


    ·        
    ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL
    IN STATUS can be argued for infinitum.


    ·        
    Professional registration
    matters
    is not arguable, it is a necessity for
    BREXIT.

    Stop quibbling and sort
    out this mess.

     


    In the light of your
    answer, shouldn't the EC UK close down all other their licensed
    PEIs because the IET
    UK would be enough to cater for all disciplines of
    Engineering
    .
    Reply : Barry Brooks :
    solutions are needed to
    minimise the impact of Brexit on the scientific and engineering
    environment.

    So,
    collaboration is the approach for the time being, as far as I can
    see!


    Barry Brooks : Re: Is IET
    suitable for Mechanical Engineers

    Whilst the name, IET, does
    not specify electrical or electronic engineering, those disciplines
    remain at the heart of our membership, but, reflecting the purpose
    of the IET, increasingly our members have much wider backgrounds
    and roles in industry and academia. 

    The
    IET is flexible and evolves to meet the needs of our members, and
    the society in which we all work, so mechanical, chemical, bio,
    nano-, materials, nuclear, civil, structural, railway engineers are
    all welcome!

     

    Professor J D M Watson CBE
    FREng FICE MSc DPhil CEng

    Asks what our learned
    society needs for the future.

     

    Try some basic
    management:

     

    Six Sigma –
    SCRAP


    1.      
    Stand back and review


    2.      
    Collect all information


    3.      
    Reflect on what is necessary or not


    4.      
    Apraise and sort and dispose of


    5.      
    Pause and reflect before you start again.

     

    QA : continual
    assessement for improvement

     

    Change is needed urgently,
    the choice is for MIETs to make.

     

    Moshe,

     I have had CEng
    refused by two PEIs 5 times by peer reviewers, none of which meet
    UKSpec.

     

    The first PEI members
    blocked all IET members from recruiting, as it called for CEng
    IMECHE.

    This same organisation
    uses IET for lobbying and promoting a lame duck project that will
    kill off UK scientific nuclear R&D.

    IET will do anything for
    prestige, except protect its members.

     

    When a system fails it
    has to be reviewed not covered up to protect incumbent
    members.

    My career was destroyed
    by incumbent people who plagiarised my name and failed in
    engineering. They were so powerful, EU Engineering Diplomats, that
    no action could be taken against them.

     

    This attitude of
    untouchable CEng has to stop.

     


    J Gowman, BA MIET

    Stop Blogging, start acting,
    its your future.




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Sparkingchip

    Ref : Simon
    Baker,

     

    *« If you have a
    degree in engineering or something technology-related, and work in
    engineering or technology, then you just need to find someone who
    will sign the form. »


    You confirm what I have
    been complaining against.

    You are
    a member of
    a restrictive,
    selective
    club, tough on the
    others. I’m alright jack.
    - *« no reason to try
    to keep me out of their club. »

     


    & EngTech
    and Licentiateship (LCGI)


    There is enough evidence
    to show that IET, PEIs and the ECUK, are serving only the UK
    population of university educated, trained professional engineers.
    As I have pointed out, you can work hard, study by any means
    possible and achieve great engineering feats, yet be barred from
    job selection, because you do not belong to the elite subjective,
    CEng private club.

    On the other hand you can
    drift through “uni”, without making much effort, just go to all the
    lectures and do the set work. Then get into a cosy job by using old
    boy relations, and be CEng at 26 as Simon points out.

     

    Where I have worked, the
    British engineers were glad to leave your club, to work according
    to their competences and experience.
    When not in the UK, you
    are still governed by UK regulations.
    However, to join this
    CEng club has no value outside of the UK.

     

    To join this UK club in
    order to work in the UK you need friends, and have to buy
    indulgences.

    You belong to the 19th
    Century; you are ruining UK professional engineering. The UK needs
    better than this.

     

    From these blogs we see
    that the majority of CEng do not meet UK-Spec; they work in
    protected industries or authorities and close the gates on others
    who are equally or more competent.


    As you
    said :  
    Simon
    Baker, 
    *« If you have a
    degree in engineering or something technology-related, and work in
    engineering or technology, then you just need to find someone who
    will sign the form. »    -  
    *« no reason to try to
    keep me out of their club. »;

    this is reason enough to
    stop this charade of CEng registration and CEng superior to IEng
    bullying.

    Any professional engineer
    who has studied, passed academic examinations and gained
    professional experience should be a registered PE. No titles
    needed.

     

    All of our master
    students on gaining their “Mastère”, said yes we know that now we
    can go and learn a Metier, but we are incapable of being
    independent engineers until we get experience.

    As an apprentice trained
    Eng Tech I was independent and innovating from my first
    day.

     

    No, Technicians and I Eng
    are not equal, but technicians can go on to be I Eng after studying
    and experience.

    No, I Eng and C Eng are
    not equal on the day of passing their BSc or MEng, but an I Eng can
    become CEng after further studies and Experience.

     

    Managers are not
    CEng                            
    Why not an IET sub title CEng manager

    Professors are not
    CEng                          
    Why not an IET sub title CEng academic

    Retired PEs are not CEng
    or IEng.         

    Ref: Andy Millar:
    "Emeritus CEng" when
     retired.

     

    CEng is a current,
    practicing engineering, status for one year only.

    IET does not protect its
    I Eng MIET; it bows down to those that mock it, just for
    prestige.

     

    I want nothing to do with
    the UK CEng it’s worthless. You have justified my observations in
    this blog.

     

    What do we want from a
    PEI?

    Who should, and how to
    register young professional engineers in the UK, that is the real
    question?

     

    How do you face up to
    BREXIT: - by engineering.

    Who are the Engineers we
    need: - they are technicians BSc, MEng and
    technologists.

    Where do we find them:
    not in PEIs in the UK, you have confirmed this fact. The majority
    are not ECUK registered, therefore ECUK has failed.

     

    I’m all right Jack, do
    not change anything, or else we might lose our status and
    prestige.

     

    In philosophy a well
    presented documented argument is irrefutable, so is the counter
    argument.


    ·        
    ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL
    IN STATUS can be argued for infinitum.


    ·        
    Professional registration
    matters
    is not arguable, it is a necessity for
    BREXIT.

    Stop quibbling and sort
    out this mess.

     


    In the light of your
    answer, shouldn't the EC UK close down all other their licensed
    PEIs because the IET
    UK would be enough to cater for all disciplines of
    Engineering
    .
    Reply : Barry Brooks :
    solutions are needed to
    minimise the impact of Brexit on the scientific and engineering
    environment.

    So,
    collaboration is the approach for the time being, as far as I can
    see!


    Barry Brooks : Re: Is IET
    suitable for Mechanical Engineers

    Whilst the name, IET, does
    not specify electrical or electronic engineering, those disciplines
    remain at the heart of our membership, but, reflecting the purpose
    of the IET, increasingly our members have much wider backgrounds
    and roles in industry and academia. 

    The
    IET is flexible and evolves to meet the needs of our members, and
    the society in which we all work, so mechanical, chemical, bio,
    nano-, materials, nuclear, civil, structural, railway engineers are
    all welcome!

     

    Professor J D M Watson CBE
    FREng FICE MSc DPhil CEng

    Asks what our learned
    society needs for the future.

     

    Try some basic
    management:

     

    Six Sigma –
    SCRAP


    1.      
    Stand back and review


    2.      
    Collect all information


    3.      
    Reflect on what is necessary or not


    4.      
    Apraise and sort and dispose of


    5.      
    Pause and reflect before you start again.

     

    QA : continual
    assessement for improvement

     

    Change is needed urgently,
    the choice is for MIETs to make.

     

    Moshe,

     I have had CEng
    refused by two PEIs 5 times by peer reviewers, none of which meet
    UKSpec.

     

    The first PEI members
    blocked all IET members from recruiting, as it called for CEng
    IMECHE.

    This same organisation
    uses IET for lobbying and promoting a lame duck project that will
    kill off UK scientific nuclear R&D.

    IET will do anything for
    prestige, except protect its members.

     

    When a system fails it
    has to be reviewed not covered up to protect incumbent
    members.

    My career was destroyed
    by incumbent people who plagiarised my name and failed in
    engineering. They were so powerful, EU Engineering Diplomats, that
    no action could be taken against them.

     

    This attitude of
    untouchable CEng has to stop.

     


    J Gowman, BA MIET

    Stop Blogging, start acting,
    its your future.




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Sparkingchip

    Ref : Simon
    Baker,

     

    *« If you have a
    degree in engineering or something technology-related, and work in
    engineering or technology, then you just need to find someone who
    will sign the form. »


    You confirm what I have
    been complaining against.

    You are
    a member of
    a restrictive,
    selective
    club, tough on the
    others. I’m alright jack.
    - *« no reason to try
    to keep me out of their club. »

     


    & EngTech
    and Licentiateship (LCGI)


    There is enough evidence
    to show that IET, PEIs and the ECUK, are serving only the UK
    population of university educated, trained professional engineers.
    As I have pointed out, you can work hard, study by any means
    possible and achieve great engineering feats, yet be barred from
    job selection, because you do not belong to the elite subjective,
    CEng private club.

    On the other hand you can
    drift through “uni”, without making much effort, just go to all the
    lectures and do the set work. Then get into a cosy job by using old
    boy relations, and be CEng at 26 as Simon points out.

     

    Where I have worked, the
    British engineers were glad to leave your club, to work according
    to their competences and experience.
    When not in the UK, you
    are still governed by UK regulations.
    However, to join this
    CEng club has no value outside of the UK.

     

    To join this UK club in
    order to work in the UK you need friends, and have to buy
    indulgences.

    You belong to the 19th
    Century; you are ruining UK professional engineering. The UK needs
    better than this.

     

    From these blogs we see
    that the majority of CEng do not meet UK-Spec; they work in
    protected industries or authorities and close the gates on others
    who are equally or more competent.


    As you
    said :  
    Simon
    Baker, 
    *« If you have a
    degree in engineering or something technology-related, and work in
    engineering or technology, then you just need to find someone who
    will sign the form. »    -  
    *« no reason to try to
    keep me out of their club. »;

    this is reason enough to
    stop this charade of CEng registration and CEng superior to IEng
    bullying.

    Any professional engineer
    who has studied, passed academic examinations and gained
    professional experience should be a registered PE. No titles
    needed.

     

    All of our master
    students on gaining their “Mastère”, said yes we know that now we
    can go and learn a Metier, but we are incapable of being
    independent engineers until we get experience.

    As an apprentice trained
    Eng Tech I was independent and innovating from my first
    day.

     

    No, Technicians and I Eng
    are not equal, but technicians can go on to be I Eng after studying
    and experience.

    No, I Eng and C Eng are
    not equal on the day of passing their BSc or MEng, but an I Eng can
    become CEng after further studies and Experience.

     

    Managers are not
    CEng                            
    Why not an IET sub title CEng manager

    Professors are not
    CEng                          
    Why not an IET sub title CEng academic

    Retired PEs are not CEng
    or IEng.         

    Ref: Andy Millar:
    "Emeritus CEng" when
     retired.

     

    CEng is a current,
    practicing engineering, status for one year only.

    IET does not protect its
    I Eng MIET; it bows down to those that mock it, just for
    prestige.

     

    I want nothing to do with
    the UK CEng it’s worthless. You have justified my observations in
    this blog.

     

    What do we want from a
    PEI?

    Who should, and how to
    register young professional engineers in the UK, that is the real
    question?

     

    How do you face up to
    BREXIT: - by engineering.

    Who are the Engineers we
    need: - they are technicians BSc, MEng and
    technologists.

    Where do we find them:
    not in PEIs in the UK, you have confirmed this fact. The majority
    are not ECUK registered, therefore ECUK has failed.

     

    I’m all right Jack, do
    not change anything, or else we might lose our status and
    prestige.

     

    In philosophy a well
    presented documented argument is irrefutable, so is the counter
    argument.


    ·        
    ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL
    IN STATUS can be argued for infinitum.


    ·        
    Professional registration
    matters
    is not arguable, it is a necessity for
    BREXIT.

    Stop quibbling and sort
    out this mess.

     


    In the light of your
    answer, shouldn't the EC UK close down all other their licensed
    PEIs because the IET
    UK would be enough to cater for all disciplines of
    Engineering
    .
    Reply : Barry Brooks :
    solutions are needed to
    minimise the impact of Brexit on the scientific and engineering
    environment.

    So,
    collaboration is the approach for the time being, as far as I can
    see!


    Barry Brooks : Re: Is IET
    suitable for Mechanical Engineers

    Whilst the name, IET, does
    not specify electrical or electronic engineering, those disciplines
    remain at the heart of our membership, but, reflecting the purpose
    of the IET, increasingly our members have much wider backgrounds
    and roles in industry and academia. 

    The
    IET is flexible and evolves to meet the needs of our members, and
    the society in which we all work, so mechanical, chemical, bio,
    nano-, materials, nuclear, civil, structural, railway engineers are
    all welcome!

     

    Professor J D M Watson CBE
    FREng FICE MSc DPhil CEng

    Asks what our learned
    society needs for the future.

     

    Try some basic
    management:

     

    Six Sigma –
    SCRAP


    1.      
    Stand back and review


    2.      
    Collect all information


    3.      
    Reflect on what is necessary or not


    4.      
    Apraise and sort and dispose of


    5.      
    Pause and reflect before you start again.

     

    QA : continual
    assessement for improvement

     

    Change is needed urgently,
    the choice is for MIETs to make.

     

    Moshe,

     I have had CEng
    refused by two PEIs 5 times by peer reviewers, none of which meet
    UKSpec.

     

    The first PEI members
    blocked all IET members from recruiting, as it called for CEng
    IMECHE.

    This same organisation
    uses IET for lobbying and promoting a lame duck project that will
    kill off UK scientific nuclear R&D.

    IET will do anything for
    prestige, except protect its members.

     

    When a system fails it
    has to be reviewed not covered up to protect incumbent
    members.

    My career was destroyed
    by incumbent people who plagiarised my name and failed in
    engineering. They were so powerful, EU Engineering Diplomats, that
    no action could be taken against them.

     

    This attitude of
    untouchable CEng has to stop.

     


    J Gowman, BA MIET

    Stop Blogging, start acting,
    its your future.




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Mr Gowman,


    PEI's provide multiple routs to registration.

    I don't think the comments like exclusive club are accurate because many PEI's have individual, experienced or adult rout to registration for Engineers who don't have an accredited degree or the level of degree that would allow academic rout, Engineers can demonstrate their experience, training and education matching the UK SPEC for the level they are registering.

    So there are CEng's or IEng's who are registered via mature adult rout. This includes non UK nationals persons from USA, Asia etc, etc.

    The problem they experiencing is that according to the international agreements such as Washington accord or Sidney Accord that are focused on the properly accredited degree for the recognition. I had and also know others who had their registration refused, continued to work with the PEI designated advisers provided additional documents, or courses etc until they passed to the next stage to the PRI. Not everyone made it. The overall experience that PEI's representatives wanted to help the applicant and not to fail the applicant.

    Now the degree once its recognized then the rest of the process needs to be completed.

    IET has agreements with Engineers Australia and other countries.






  • It is my view that IEng and EngTech should be combined. For the following reasons:-
    • There have been a number of earlier initiatives intended to 'reinvigorate' IEng but they have all failed to get any traction.

    • Further efforts to promote IEng will fail as there is no appetite within any of the PEI's to promote something may detract from the gold standard grade of CEng. 

    • Having two grades for a professional engineer just creates confusion.

    • No other countries are succesful in registering technologists in significant numbers. Whether it is the UK, America, Australia or New Zealand.

    • Combining IEng with EngTech would give a real boost to the vocational route into engineering.  


    The independent review by Prof John Luff makes a number of logical recommendations. Let's hope they are implemented without delay.