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U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
​I have noted in another discussion, several comments of my own, but there seems to be a lack of interest or it takes too long to read and digest the report.

​Apart from Roy's original comments and direction to be able to read the report, it would be great to find out if IMechE, ICE and the IET have had any official comments on the report and if not, when can we expect any.?


​Daniel


P.S. Just had to get away from CEng v IEng status discussion.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Peter
    Miller 

    Yes I Eng is dead it
    is a degrading title.

    So is CEng a
    superfluos regime of no value to engineering.



    There is a huge
    majority of IEng type PEs outside of PEIs  - in the UK.



    We need a total
    rethink about what engineering & the UK needs.



    CEngs need to get
    their heads out of the sand.



    Europe and
    the rest of the world have applied the UK imposed system of LMD.
    But the UK still hangs on to Honours degrees, which are not
    respected outside of the UK. This I know from the unfortunate
    European students that go to UK Universities for Licence (Three
    years university -BA or BSc) take Honours degrees and then find
    them selves blocked from master degrees in Europe. 



    The UK
    needs to define what it wants from further education and technology
    training. - The Government (now dismissed due to BREXIT) had
    started a Three Grade University coordinated Apprentice scheme -see
    E&T April 2017)

    The ECUK
    is addressing this problem , but is controlled by PEIs . it is the
    PEI & CEng out of date protectionism that needs to be
    resolved.



    If IET
     continues with this CEng is lord and best attitude, it will
    quickly collapse.

    I see that
    the Council and Board is out of line with IET bloggers, but the
    Board & Council up hold the IET constitution which sees IET
    open and equal to all grades of PEs Technologists and interested
    Scientists of all genders (I see no females on this blog!) and all
    disciplines.



    If IET and
    other PEIs do not meet the needs of up and comming PEs then it will
    just very quickly collapse.



    I see the
    attitude on this blog isolated from reality and from the rest of
    the World.



    J Gowman
    MIET



  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Peter
    Miller 

    Yes I Eng is dead it
    is a degrading title.

    So is CEng a
    superfluos regime of no value to engineering.



    There is a huge
    majority of IEng type PEs outside of PEIs  - in the UK.



    We need a total
    rethink about what engineering & the UK needs.



    CEngs need to get
    their heads out of the sand.



    Europe and
    the rest of the world have applied the UK imposed system of LMD.
    But the UK still hangs on to Honours degrees, which are not
    respected outside of the UK. This I know from the unfortunate
    European students that go to UK Universities for Licence (Three
    years university -BA or BSc) take Honours degrees and then find
    them selves blocked from master degrees in Europe. 



    The UK
    needs to define what it wants from further education and technology
    training. - The Government (now dismissed due to BREXIT) had
    started a Three Grade University coordinated Apprentice scheme -see
    E&T April 2017)

    The ECUK
    is addressing this problem , but is controlled by PEIs . it is the
    PEI & CEng out of date protectionism that needs to be
    resolved.



    If IET
     continues with this CEng is lord and best attitude, it will
    quickly collapse.

    I see that
    the Council and Board is out of line with IET bloggers, but the
    Board & Council up hold the IET constitution which sees IET
    open and equal to all grades of PEs Technologists and interested
    Scientists of all genders (I see no females on this blog!) and all
    disciplines.



    If IET and
    other PEIs do not meet the needs of up and comming PEs then it will
    just very quickly collapse.



    I see the
    attitude on this blog isolated from reality and from the rest of
    the World.



    J Gowman
    MIET



  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Peter
    Miller 

    Yes I Eng is dead it
    is a degrading title.

    So is CEng a
    superfluos regime of no value to engineering.



    There is a huge
    majority of IEng type PEs outside of PEIs  - in the UK.



    We need a total
    rethink about what engineering & the UK needs.



    CEngs need to get
    their heads out of the sand.



    Europe and
    the rest of the world have applied the UK imposed system of LMD.
    But the UK still hangs on to Honours degrees, which are not
    respected outside of the UK. This I know from the unfortunate
    European students that go to UK Universities for Licence (Three
    years university -BA or BSc) take Honours degrees and then find
    them selves blocked from master degrees in Europe. 



    The UK
    needs to define what it wants from further education and technology
    training. - The Government (now dismissed due to BREXIT) had
    started a Three Grade University coordinated Apprentice scheme -see
    E&T April 2017)

    The ECUK
    is addressing this problem , but is controlled by PEIs . it is the
    PEI & CEng out of date protectionism that needs to be
    resolved.



    If IET
     continues with this CEng is lord and best attitude, it will
    quickly collapse.

    I see that
    the Council and Board is out of line with IET bloggers, but the
    Board & Council up hold the IET constitution which sees IET
    open and equal to all grades of PEs Technologists and interested
    Scientists of all genders (I see no females on this blog!) and all
    disciplines.



    If IET and
    other PEIs do not meet the needs of up and comming PEs then it will
    just very quickly collapse.



    I see the
    attitude on this blog isolated from reality and from the rest of
    the World.



    J Gowman
    MIET



  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Moshe,

    I agree with you,
    but we have a system that is against change.

    We have a
    hegemony. 

    Un
    fortunately it is a UK problem, it is being addressed by ECUK and
    the last UK Government -20 4 2017!




    I think
    that IET is the only PEI that can address change for the better -
    UK and international PE recognition.

    FEANI
    needs to come up to date as well.




    John
    Gowman MIET

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Moshe,

    I agree with you,
    but we have a system that is against change.

    We have a
    hegemony. 

    Un
    fortunately it is a UK problem, it is being addressed by ECUK and
    the last UK Government -20 4 2017!




    I think
    that IET is the only PEI that can address change for the better -
    UK and international PE recognition.

    FEANI
    needs to come up to date as well.




    John
    Gowman MIET

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Moshe,

    I agree with you,
    but we have a system that is against change.

    We have a
    hegemony. 

    Un
    fortunately it is a UK problem, it is being addressed by ECUK and
    the last UK Government -20 4 2017!




    I think
    that IET is the only PEI that can address change for the better -
    UK and international PE recognition.

    FEANI
    needs to come up to date as well.




    John
    Gowman MIET

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Moshe,

    I agree with you,
    but we have a system that is against change.

    We have a
    hegemony. 

    Un
    fortunately it is a UK problem, it is being addressed by ECUK and
    the last UK Government -20 4 2017!




    I think
    that IET is the only PEI that can address change for the better -
    UK and international PE recognition.

    FEANI
    needs to come up to date as well.




    John
    Gowman MIET

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    I'm not mingling in UK affairs. Offering an opinion.

    Here is what is happening in other parts of the world and challenges PE's are addressing.

     
    Protecting the PE License


     


    Just last week, at the last minute and without any advanced warning, a bill in the Nevada legislature  (A.B. 353) that would erode occupational licensure in the state was scheduled for consideration the next morning. National and state leaders immediately went in to action, preparing a response to the proposal, including filing a joint letter of opposition before the deadline, which was 5:00 PM that day. As a result of our timely and forceful intervention, in writing and working behind the scenes with our network of national and local licensing contacts, the bill was dropped from the legislative committee's agenda the next day.

    The National Society of Professional Engineers stands today as the only national organization committed to addressing the professional concerns of licensed PEs across all disciplines.


    If you ask me how is this relevant to the discussion and the report, I would say it maybe not relevant and it may be relevant indirectly.
    Can UK engineers benefit from a body with the power that NSPE has in the USA?

    NSPE is a National Society of Professional Engineers.

     



    The National Society of Professional Engineers stands today as the only national organization committed to addressing the professional concerns of PEs across all disciplines.



     


     


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Moshe,

    ​You have made several valid points about the standing of Engineers in the U.K. and now seem to be concerned about what is happening in Nevada USA.   What has me scratching my head about this, is the fact that you are registered as a CEng in the U.K.,when you are not registered as a PE in the USA, and I know for a fact that here in Canada that CEng  doesn't mean a thing unless you can become registered as a PEng. 

    ​I can understand why PE's in the USA would be up in arms about the proposed Nevada changes, but why should you be, unless it is your intention to write the exams and gain your PE.    The majority of engineers working in the USA work under the protection of an Industrial Exemption, just like you do.?


    Daniel
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Daniel, I think they way I posted the info can seem as if I'm concerned with Nevada Engineers. 

    I was providing an example how an organization NSPE fights like in Canada the Ontario Engineers fought for the PEs.

    So what I was saying to my fellow members in the UK maybe there is a need for something like that in the UK?

    In the US there are work environments where you do not have to be licensed to work legally as an engineer. There are exemptions under certain conditions for manufacturing, for the government, or for military work. In fact, a minority of graduates of US engineering programs become PEs; most use their training in positions that do not require licensing.

    My approach to IET is international in scope.  Numbers may change yet:
    The IET has more than 150,000 members in 127 countries and offices in Europe, North America and Asia-Pacific. The IET provides a global knowledge network to facilitate the exchange of ideas and promote the positive role of science, engineering, and technology in the world.


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