The land under a wind farm doesn't have to be concreted over.  Each turbine needs a concrete pad.  The rest can be grassed over and used to graze sheep or grow crops.

Hello Jon:

Now you have mentioned the other parameter TIME but you failed to mention prediction accuracy! As time is increased the predication accuracy decreases.

Peter Brooks

Tidal power generation is very variable swinging from zero to full output twice a day (approximately). To be classed as despatchable a significant back up or storage system is required.

I would prefer my life support system to be nuclear or fossil fuel powered rather than from renewables.

Well with reversable generators (generate on both ebb and flow) it is 4 times a day and at different times around the coast, and the slack tide periods are relatively short.

But I agree, nuclear is best for standby.

Hello Roger:

Now you have added another topic to this thread by your reference to "my life support system".

From a personal perspective using electrical "mains" power for a persons "life support system" is not acceptable.

During storms and disasters the "mains' electrical power can disappear for hours, days and weeks.

If I had a LVAD (heart pump) installed in my body I would have to put in a external backup electrical generator that uses LP gas or regular gasoline. 

Peter Brooks,

Palm Bay Florida 

To go slightly aside again on this topic. Could tidal generation be run synchronously? Normal hydroelectric power can but could a direct synchronous generator operate with what is a continuously varying (sinusoidal) flow regime and offer grid stability?

Inverter coupled systems like wind and solar do nothing to help the grid stability and battery storage systems even with ‘advanced grid forming’ inverters don’t seem to be enough.

This article notes the blackout problems at Australia’s Broken Hill when the powerline coupling to the Australian grid was broken in a storm. Even though there was apparently ample wind, solar and battery power available the micro grid would not run without connection to a real grid.

https://judithcurry.com/2024/12/05/wind-and-solar-cant-support-the-grid/

This may have been a technology or management problem, there is another view here:

https://reneweconomy.com.au/energy-regulator-joins-probe-into-reasons-for-lengthy-blackouts-in-storm-hit-broken-hill/

Or maybe it was the wrong sort of battery:

https://www.agl.com.au/about-agl/operations/broken-hill-battery-energy-storage-system?zcf97o=vlx3ap

Roger:-

Regarding power systems in Australia- I don't know very much except 1) Tesla Storage Battery systems have been installed in Western Australia and 2) There are big plans to connect a Northern Australia's solar farm(s) to Singapore, using underseas cables made in a new cable manufacturing facility in Tasmania.

As a result of climate change many older Hydro systems are running out of water here in the US,

Peter Brooks

Palm Bay Florida 

Interesting read - while it looks like there were a few technical challenges that really should have been sorted better, it reads as if management/maintenance failings alone were quite enough to cause the disaster:

one of the diesel generators that were supposed to provide back-up power was out of action, and the other was incapable of meeting community and business demand.

the Broken Hill battery had been deliberately disabled from providing this “islanding” service, under orders from transmission company Transgrid which had chosen instead to deliver those services through a new advanced compressed air storage project.  ... But that facility has not even begun construction, and won’t be built until 2027.

with a nice summary from the author:

But, like many of the challenges facing the green energy transition, this is not really about the technology, but whether the regulatory processes, the rules and grid management protocols are fit for purpose.

  - Andy.

More likely population explosion than climate change has emptied your reservoirs.

More like lack of snow over the last few years. This years US winter is projected to be colder with more snow in the western mountains. 

Not really much of an explosion in the US - population now about 320 million, vs 300 million in 2004. A ten percent increase in population over 15 years , mostly created by better life expectancy rather than high birth rate or migration,  and that is now very clearly levelling off if not reversing, does not have as much effect as the fact the last 4  years have been unusually dry !!

More interesting is that the slower trend underlying the spikes is actually for more water, but some of that arrives all at once and in the wrong places.

It is useful to look at the stats before leaping to conclusions.
Mike.

Not really much of an explosion in the US - population now about 320 million, vs 300 million in 2004. A ten percent increase in population over 15 years , mostly created by better life expectancy rather than high birth rate or migration,  and that is now very clearly levelling off if not reversing, does not have as much effect as the fact the last 4  years have been unusually dry !!

More interesting is that the slower trend underlying the spikes is actually for more water, but some of that arrives all at once and in the wrong places.

It is useful to look at the stats before leaping to conclusions.
Mike.

Population expansion by immigration which Trump want to stop. 4 years weather  is just that. Climate is based on 30 year observations.

You have to be very careful about the stats you apply.

What Trump wants to stop is ILLEGAL immigration. One can enter the US using legal means -either as a part time worker (usually farm labor) or permanent as a green card alien. There are also a number of other ways, usually related to regional wars or disasters.

Peter Brooks

yes, but the bit of immigration Trump is wittering on about, is a very small part of the total, and the total  immigration a very small part of the total problem of supporting a nation with a large fraction of non workers, compared to longevity at one end and unemployed youth at the other.

We are not immune from such distractions, we have Mr Farage over here who is equally fast and loose with  basic arithmetic, especially when it suits his agenda of blaming anyone except folk like himself and deliberately creating a "them" and "us" culture. Sadly a lot of the problems come from the folk in the "us" group.

Mike

Hello Mike:

I guess you were talking about the aging population problem - US families not having children and the updated mortality tables (used to calculate the required minimum pre-tax retirement with drawls) which indicate the longer projected lifetimes for seniors. By the way these tables also show a reduction in expected life times for younger people probably due to excessive deaths from drug use.

The main reason for US families not having children is related to the cost of having kids. At the present time personal debt is a major problem (credit cards etc), even with both parents working full time.

"Wall street" is projecting a bumper years for 2025 but I see major storm clouds ahead due to this personal debt problem.

Peter Brooks

Palm Bay Florida USA

The clouds have arrived Peter.

In the uk male suicide is a major issue.

Housing is unaffordable, wages haven't grown since the 2007/8 bank crisis, debt per capita runs at over 100K.

On top of that we have a near bankrupt country run by idiots who think we can afford net zero and all it's deluded schemes.

I've advised my kids not to reproduce as they'll be the poorest generation since the early 20th century. You may survive this current situation with kids but don't expect anything other than hard graft for the state.

Lovely isn't it.

The problem isn't a few windmills.  If we all went back to driving steam powerd cars burning genuine British coal that wouldn't really solve anything.

Most of the country is owned by a handful of very rich people.  Most of what's left is owned by Baby Boomers, who bought all the housing while it was still cheap*.  And if those same Baby Boomers were lucky enough to get a university education, it was paid for by the state**.  So people are now leaving university with tens of thousands of pounds in debt, and are forced to rent over-priced housing as they can never afford to buy.  Of course, all the council housing has been sold off.

Then many of our businesses are falling into the hands of "venture capitalists", i.e. asset strippers.  A few years ago, if you bought a company, it was because you wanted it to grow into the biggest and best company in its industry.  Now the venture capitalists will buy a company with borrowed money.  Then sack thousands of workers, sell off the assets, and declare a huge dividend.  Then every year, they keep paying more dividends, while the company has to borrow money to keep going.  They may end up selling off what's left of the company, or else it goes bust.  Either way, the venture capitalists don't care because they took out more money from the company than they ever spent buying it.

So our industry is being destroyed by people who only care about what dividends they get this quarter.  Meanwhile, the Chinese are taking over whole industry sectors from under our noses. And that includes batteries, solar power and electric cars.  All the new things replacing old industries.

* I was born right at the end of the baby boom, so of course I have my own house, and the mortgage is paid off.

** When I was at university, the local education authority paid all my tuition fees, and I even got a small grant towards living expenses.

Thanks for that summary from your view.

Chilling as it is.

One does wonder where this all leads?

Hello Jon:

It seems that everyone in the UK  seems to believe that the root cause of the current social/financial problems started in the 2007/8 bank crisis, however I think it goes back to about 1987.

If you are into pop music I draw you attention to The Pet Shop Boys "Actually' Album and the song "SHOPPING" which deals with changing the laws by allowing the  sale of Public Assets - "the big bang in the city"

Peter Brooks

Palm Bay Florida  

Hello Simon:

A major difference between the UK and the US seems to be a lack of interest in the UK for purchasing stock and bonds. Stock and bonds provide  (over time) personal wealth- for ones retirement.

In the UK personal wealth seems to be mainly created by the increase in ones home prices.

Peter Brooks

Palm Bay Florida

A major difference between the UK and the US seems to be a lack of interest in the UK for purchasing stock and bonds. Stock and bonds provide  (over time) personal wealth- for ones retirement.

There's an awful lot of investment in shocks/shares/bonds by UK workers - a few might directly own them directly (especially after the 1980s/90s sell offs), but the most usual route is via a pension schemes (whose operators are hopefully able to keep a closer eye on the investments than most of us could afford the time to do).

   - Andy.