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What is the best way to wire ceiling lights?

Arran Cameron
The ceiling rose junction box with its loop-in wiring is now really showing its age and is no longer a practical (or even safe) installation for most residents who wish to install fancy light fittings. It is still, however, the most common arrangement for new build houses and rewires, probably as the result of the electrician's training and how they consider it to be the norm or they cannot think of (potentially better) alternatives.


So, what is the best way to wire ceiling lights? Should neutral wires be taken to the switches or not?
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    In fact, many years ago now, I rewired a very large house therefore a few lighting circuits more than the two min or likely three I often did but also many of the rooms had wall lights in addition to centre lights. Therefore I created seperate ccts for wall lights in order that many rooms could have at least some lighting even with a lighting circuit down and before using table lamps or standard lamps. I fact I`ve often saiid the reg stating divide circuits to minimize etc etc if taken in it`s strict sense would require each point being on it`s own circuit even if it`s all fed from one consumer unit and cutout - nobody but nobody would wire one such though (Well I suppose it`s always possible someone has but most unlikely).
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    Arran Cameron:

    The ceiling rose junction box with its loop-in wiring is now really showing its age and is no longer a practical (or even safe) installation for most residents who wish to install fancy light fittings. It is still, however, the most common arrangement for new build houses and rewires, probably as the result of the electrician's training and how they consider it to be the norm or they cannot think of (potentially better) alternatives.


    So, what is the best way to wire ceiling lights? Should neutral wires be taken to the switches or not?




    Well, I've fitted about a million of them so add all the other's that have been fitted and I doubt you'll ever find one that's caused any problems... just saying!

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    ebee:

    You might run that way as a "one off" situation for power in an oubuilding/small room/large "cupboard" but normally you`d consider seperate ccts fow power an lighting anyway so at least you could plug in table amps if your lighting circuit not working.




    One disadvantage is that if the ring main trips its circuit breaker, or is switched off for maintenance, then the room loses the operation of its ceiling lights. The same thing will happen with separate ring main and lighting circuits supplied by the same RCD if it trips.


    I decided on a separate lighting circuit (with its own RCBO) backed up by a UPS.  






    Also for any more than simple one way switching it gets a bit unweildy




    The disadvantage of a neutral at the wall switch is having to provide a terminal for it unless double pole switches are used where both the live and neutral are switched. Two-way switching can only be accomplished by having a fixed neutral terminal, or with a DPDT switch where the second switch for the neutral has both its outlet terminals connected together so is effectively unused.



     

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    This discussion is going beyond reality. 

    Most electricians consider using junction boxes and inefficient and bad practice. 

    It is easy to terminate neutrals at light switches by using push fit connectors or light switches with neutral terminals built into them. 

    Installing, maintaining and fault finding lighting circuits wired through the switch boxes is easier and safer.

    But we have to work with all the legacy installations wired in a multitude days.


    Andy Betteridge 

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    2e083af39e4e4ae60a410bb5445d6fbb-huge-20190829_171028.jpg

    The reality of what we are dealing with is this neutral borrowed from the cooker circuit for the kitchen under cabinet lights on the lighting circuit I was trying to move onto a RCD protected fuse board last week. 


    Andy Betteridge
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    Like I said a bit back. Wiring at the CR loop in method (my prefered way but I was brung up that way ) and loop in at switch box both have pros and cons. However I do recognise that junction boxes if accessable do have their merits too. If not easily accessable a big no though. There again the old traditional singles with N & E looping to Roses and L & E looping to switches in the days when metal conduit was buried in walls from an earlier time do still have a place. Off course when you get a mixed hybrid of the two or three systems then it can cause a bit of head scrastching during fault finding or alterations/additions. All good fun this lighting caper.
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    ebee:

    All good fun this lighting caper.




    ?

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    Sparkingchip:
    2e083af39e4e4ae60a410bb5445d6fbb-huge-20190829_171028.jpg

    The reality of what we are dealing with is this neutral borrowed from the cooker circuit for the kitchen under cabinet lights on the lighting circuit I was trying to move onto a RCD protected fuse board last week. 


    Andy Betteridge 




     

    "Borrowing" of a neutral from a different sub-circuit is a definite no-no! I once worked in an old building served by more than one consumer unit. A neutral to serve a circuit off one consumer unit had been taken from a circuit on the other consumer unit. This meant that if the second consumer unit two-pole main switch were switched off, the neutral from the first circuit would lose its path, causing both neutral and live connections on the second consumer unit to go live, though of course nothing served by it would work. A very dangerous situation for an unsuspecting electrician.


    That's why I double check everything I work on with my trusty neon screwdriver tester. Even with both sub-circuits on the same consumer unit, this is bad practice and banned by Regulations for good reason.
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    Neon tester? Ohh Dear, ohh very very oh dear!


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    Neon Tester ...... here we go .....lol

    Neon Screwdrivers are Ok?

    a better review


    Legh

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