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13A EV socket

lyledunn
TNCS system in local development. Second hand BMW 330E Hybrid with ICCB that appears to restrict charging to 6A. Owner wants 13A socket on outside wall of house. 

The area is near the Mourne mountains where an Ra of 200 ohms would be difficult to achieve with a single rod. In any event the driveway has just be nicely finished. It would be a simple matter of drilling through the back of the meter cupboard to provide  the 13A socket but it is the loss of neutral protection that is the problem. Anyone know if loss of neutral protection is available as a separate item?
  • 0
    Yes, there are options.


    One manufacturer has a single-phase device that aligns with 722.411.4.1 (iii).


    There are a number of other manufacturers producing devices to achieve 722.411.4.1 (iv).


    As with anything, some are better than others. Of course, the devices can't "comply with BS 7671" as you're well aware, so I would check their DofCs (see section 5.3.5.1 of the IET CoP for EV Charging Equipment Installation, 4th Ed, for guidance on this).
  • 0
    They may or may not comply with various BS7671 guide/picture guide books, but do they comply with the legal requirements, ESQCR?


    Regards, UKPN
  • 0
    gkenyon:

    Yes, there are options.


    One manufacturer has a single-phase device that aligns with 722.411.4.1 (iii).


    There are a number of other manufacturers producing devices to achieve 722.411.4.1 (iv).

     


    Thank you Graham. 722.411.4.1(iii) requires a measurement electrode so that is out for this single-phase installation.

    I assume that manufacturers of devices complying with (iv) will only have a mode 3 socket so the IC-CPD supplied by BMW which has a 1363 plug will be of limited use.

    By the way, this is a company car. The company is a blue-chip and is keeping a very tight eye on petrol consumption of the PHEV company vehicles used by their sales staff. The lady tells me that her colleagues in England had 13A socket outlets fitted outside without any special provisions. The company paid some of the cost! 


  • 0
    UKPN:

    They may or may not comply with various BS7671 guide/picture guide books, but do they comply with the legal requirements, ESQCR?


    So what legal requirements does the ESQCR impose upon house owners and/or installers when adding an EV charge point to an existing electrical installation?


  • 0
    lyledunn:
    gkenyon:

    Yes, there are options.


    One manufacturer has a single-phase device that aligns with 722.411.4.1 (iii).


    There are a number of other manufacturers producing devices to achieve 722.411.4.1 (iv).

     


    Thank you Graham. 722.411.4.1(iii) requires a measurement electrode so that is out for this single-phase installation.



    The measurement earth electrode may not need to have a low resistance, it's only measuring voltage, not carrying any amount of current. I know of at least one of these devices has in-built checking of the effectiveness of the earth electrode, but you'd have to check with the manufacturer regarding their recommendations for resistance.

     
    I assume that manufacturers of devices complying with (iv) will only have a mode 3 socket so the IC-CPD supplied by BMW which has a 1363 plug will be of limited use.

    By the way, this is a company car. The company is a blue-chip and is keeping a very tight eye on petrol consumption of the PHEV company vehicles used by their sales staff. The lady tells me that her colleagues in England had 13A socket outlets fitted outside without any special provisions. The company paid some of the cost! 

     




    There are stand-alone devices available for installation upstream of the socket-outlet, so these could be used for a charging outlet to support Mode 1 / Mode 2. You should check with the manufacturer regarding the lower voltage threshold, whether the device may be installed close to the consumer unit, or immediately before the socket-outlet (e.g. set to 207 V, would be at the socket-outlet, set at 216.2 V would be upstream of that, e.g. at the consumer unit or close to the origin).


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Customer: I want an outside socket.


    Electrician:



     84d43fcb51ee39b6147ed14be668f769-original-cd945f94-a340-42bc-8c57-9db9c174ba6a.gif
  • 0
    I believe this chap does things with penguins?

    So would you allow this 'electrician' anywhere near your fuseboard?

    Legh
  • 0
    Somebody may want a BS 1363 socket outlet installed outside because they want to use it for EV charging. Does that make it an EVCP? 722.55.101.0.201.1 lists such a socket outlet amongst six possibilities; Part 2 has a wide definition of "electric vehicle charging point"; 722.1 makes it clear that intent matters.


    However, the OP simply states Owner wants 13A socket on outside wall of house, which isn't necessarily the same thing.


    There must be plenty of EVs of one sort or another throughout the land that are plugged into perfectly ordinary BS 1363 socket outlets yet we don't hear of any tragedies associated with their use.
  • 0
    Quite. Had they asked for a 13A socket for a Christmas tree or a lawnmower, we would not blink at exporting the PME earth, being  happy that really the socket for that sort of thing may as well be 2 pin, as the earth is not really exported with most outdoor electrical appliances, due to double insulation.

    In the street will be metal  PME lamp posts and lights in metal frame PME bus stops, and the main source of trouble will be grafitti or rubbish, not earthing.

    I can imagine that depending what was asked - 'can I have a socket by the front door here?' there would be no issue raised. Later someone plugs a car in, still almost always no problem. But having opened the can of worms that is car charging, in effect the lost neutral detectors that have no earth are really not much more than a low voltage and high voltage cut-out, except that they break the CPC as well as L and N when operating,

  • 0
    @mapj1, the big difference between EV charging point, and bus stop or lamp post, is power ... and it's a big difference.


    The greater the demand of an installation or piece of street furniture, the greater the risks associated with broken PEN conductor.

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