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3-phase E7 meter on single phase supply?

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
My home is wired for storage heaters but none are fitted at the moment. I’ve been using a multi-fuel stove using mostly coal but I have decided to have storage heaters fitted for this winter. I have been with EON on their Heatwise tariff which gives off-peak hours 5 at night; 3 in afternoon and two in evening.. I have two consumer units  - one for normal rate and one for off-peak rate with only the immersion heater using off-peak at the moment.
EON have told me that I can’t have this old tariff anymore and so I agreed to move to their E7 tariff and have an E7 Smart Meter installed.
I currently have a single-phase incoming supply cable feeding two 100A fuses and two meters. One fuse feeds a normal rate meter and the other fuse feeds the off-peak meter. I don’t know why there are two meters fed by separate fuses and why the installation does not use the off-peak meter to record normal rate usage.
I discovered that the meter technician is not a qualified electrician and he didn’t know what to do so he phoned his supervisor who told him not to proceed with the meter change. I spoke to the supervisor on the phone and asked him why the one fuse cannot be removed and the remaining fuse can then supply the new E7 meter. He told me that I would have to get a qualified electrician to approve that which surprised me and I got the impression that these meter technicians don’t appear to know an awful lot.
The supervisor suggested that a 3-phase meter could be fitted retaining the two fuses and the meter is then fed by two cables although it is still a single phase supply. He also told me that the 3-phase meter would not be a Smart Meter. The meter technician was not qualified to do that but he could do the job himself so would phone me later to arrange it.
Another thing the supervisor told me was that I could only have four night storage heaters which I disagreed with explaining that I was proposing to have five which would add up to 17.22kw including the 3kw immersion element – equating to just over 70A and surely the limit is the total load and not the number? There is no electric shower fitted.
I don’t have a lot of confidence that these meter technicians know what they are doing and would have preferred a qualified electrician but EON don’t have any to do meter changes.

My question is does this sound ok or not please – can a 3-phase meter be fitted and fed by two cables from the incoming single-phase supply through the two fuses already fitted.  This all sounds a bit strange so any help appreciated so thanks for any comments.
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  • Financial Times that link doesn’t work, if you Google “Boris Johnson wind farms “ you will soon find a few people pointing out the issues.


    If you find the FT report it’s a bit sharp.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Good point about energy from wind but let's also consider tidal energy that is available day and night. Yes, more expensive to set up than wind generators but has potential. Perhaps my home will eventually have storage batteries fitted one day powered by solar? Perhaps fitting storage heaters is a bad choice but I have to make a decision now and not try to predict the future too much as there are too many variables. 

    After 2025 a new home cannot have a gas boiler fitted and a few years ago who would have thought that with class A condensing boilers being so efficient? I expect the trend will be towards installing the heat pump and not storage heaters though.


    I do hope my storage heaters last at least ten years and the Dimplex Quantum comes with a two year guarantee but that can be extended to ten years although there is some small print:-

    What is not covered:

    • Heating elements, electronics, electromechanical devices and ancillary electrical

    components including fan and air‐mixing device.


    .......not much of a 'guarantee' then - just the case!


    Anyway, I'm 73 years old this month so perhaps my storage heaters will outlive me!
  • LOL.


    Theres a warning in the instructions that if you use candles in your home, smoke or have other pollution in your home the case of the storage heater may get a build up of ingrained dirt above the fan vents.


    So the guarantee on the case comes with limitations on discolouration issues and they aren’t going to cover dents.


    Andy Betteridge
  • You are just going to have to submit your calculations to your supplier and let them decide what is possible with the meters they have available, they may want to know the peak daytime maximum demand as well.


    At least the meter is in an external box, so if it melts it’s reasonably contained. ?‍?
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Nice one Andy - thanks for advice about the case! ?
  • I should point out that in two bed Housing Association flats it was standard practice to fit two storage heaters, one in the lounge and one in the hall, with a wall mounted fan assisted convector in the bedrooms plus a wall mounted fan heater in the bathroom and bedroom.


    Lifestyles have changed, kids didn’t live separate lives with a telly and other electrical gizmos in their bedrooms, their bedrooms were cold and they sat with the rest of the family to eat and do thing.


    But then you get issues because people think they can have a fan heater on the bathroom wall that will heat the room to an ambient temperature in a couple of minutes whilst they are running a bath and lighting their candles ?
  • Under the heading of lifestyle issues comes working from home, I have a desk in a spare bedroom, we have gas central heating with a wireless thermostat, if I am having a day working at home I can turn the radiators down or off in the kitchen and lounge then have the thermostat stood on my desk so only that room is being heated to full temperature and the bathroom because I don’t turn the towel rail off, but the bathroom is by where I am working so effectively I just heat the “office area”.


    People who have central heating with a wall mounted thermostat in the lounge need to heat it to be able have a warm office in a bedroom. So central heating can be a bit limiting regards where you locate a home office, you may end up with everything on the coffee table in the lounge to try and keep the heating bills down.


    At least with the storage heaters you will be able to be very selective about which rooms to heat, you may just need to plan ahead and remember to turn a heater on to charge overnight ready for the following day and evening.


    Andy Betteridge
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Sparkingchip:


    At least with the storage heaters you will be able to be very selective about which rooms to heat, you may just need to plan ahead and remember to turn a heater on to charge overnight ready for the following day and evening.


    Andy Betteridge 


    You make some good points particularly that one. With the rising cost of energy  I think most of are aware of not wasting it, welcoming low-energy devices such as flat panel monitors and TVs plus led light bulbs - even turning them off in unused areas. Many of us  are also now concerned about the long-term effect of our lifestyles on the planet, after listening to David Attenborough in particular.

    I grew up without central-heating in a large Edwardian house and my mum 'invented' double-glazing. We had ice on the inside of the draughty sash windows and she would fix polythene sheet to the inside. We never complained because we knew no different - it was winter but times are different now - people have got soft! (including me a bit I think?)


    This is a well insulated bungalow and currently heated by a multi-fuel stove in the lounge with gravity feed to the indirect hot water cylinder (that also has an immersion element) as well as two heat-leak radiators, one in kitchen and one in hall, also on gravity circulation so no electrics - no pump or programmer. This works extremely well in heating the whole property as the stove and radiators are in the centre of building so the heat moves outwards.


    I am proposing 5 storage-heaters - one in kitchen; two in lounge (one each end); and one in each of two of the bedrooms which will most likely not be used much. I'm expecting the small bathroom and small third bedroom will be heated by warm air circulating through building as happens at the moment. I also intend adding even more loft insulation.

    If I do move next year as planned then I expect the property to be bought by retired people which most property sales are to around here .  They will probably be happy not heating the bedrooms as they will not have kids leading separate lives in their bedrooms as you rightly say happens now.


    Anyway, if the buyers don't like the idea of storage heaters they can sell them on eBay and get a heat pump system  fitted - there will probably be green-deal govt grants to promote that? Many people buy a house then spend £10k on a new kitchen so changing heating systems is no different and not necessarily a deal-breaker to the sale.

    I will point out the attraction of having storage heaters being the reliability and no servicing cost. If one fails then the others still work and there is also the back-up heating from the multi-fuel stove in the event of a power cut,..........and of course the very generous Dimplex ten year guarantee on the storage heater case!


     


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Well, I'll find out on Mon 12th between noon and 4pm as EDF wanted to install a smart meter. I have advised them of my existing set up and asked if it were possible and I was told it is....... I'm not convinced...... The "adviser" even asked it it fed a dedicated "off-peak" CU so had some awareness.

    Also, it will be interesting to see if it can't be installed, whether I get the clause 7 £30 in the appointment letter for a no show appointment for wasting my time.... Again, I doubt it!



    Guy turns up, sees that it's 3-phase and says sorry, they don't do 3-phase smart meters! He said he normally gets one visit a week which is aborted.


    I'll email this evening with a "robust" letter!


    Regards


    BOD
  • perspicacious:
    Well, I'll find out on Mon 12th between noon and 4pm as EDF wanted to install a smart meter. I have advised them of my existing set up and asked if it were possible and I was told it is....... I'm not convinced...... The "adviser" even asked it it fed a dedicated "off-peak" CU so had some awareness.

    Also, it will be interesting to see if it can't be installed, whether I get the clause 7 £30 in the appointment letter for a no show appointment for wasting my time.... Again, I doubt it!



    Guy turns up, sees that it's 3-phase and says sorry, they don't do 3-phase smart meters! He said he normally gets one visit a week which is aborted.


    I'll email this evening with a "robust" letter!


    If you have any difficulty getting the £30, contact the Ombudsman. I found them very helpful in my dealings with one of the suppliers.


    BTW, how's the tooth?