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UKPN service head to smart meter - Advice and options?

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Situation - first floor maisonette

UKPN Service head (60A fuse) TN-S is located in ground floor flat with no access for first floor.  Riser cables (VIR badly degraded) run inside brickwork up to another cutout fuse (60A).  Modern cables then loop into smart meter.  UKPN say they are not responsible for the riser - EDS 08-1103 section 6.1 - even though EPN as it was then installed it (although the cutout is theirs and technically only they are allowed to remove the fuse - my thoughts?).  UKPN won't pay for the work so that sits with the client unless anyone can tell me differently?

So, what's the best way to achieve this?  Need to upgrade the cable to 25mm2 (and probably ask to upgrade fuse to 100A) and it's not practical to start digging out the walls, not least because prolonged access to downstairs is not really an option.  Therefore external?  Best method/option?

Thanks in advance


Images - degraded VIR cable; upstairs cutout; downstairs service head
441e1955118398d5c372d5c581f9b1f4-huge-2021-03-08-11.11.21.jpg4d4b6764c4e77cfb446cace0ef9fb2cd-huge-2021-03-08-11.10.56.jpg
b96c361424b4d58634fc968632e95a41-huge-2021-03-08-17.06.50.jpg
  • 0
    Nowadays that would be meter tails to a box in SWA (or split con if it was the DNOs)  and it could be run almost anywhere in terms of permitted routes. There are some pitfalls example where this sort of thing get horribly tangled.


    And yes the two company cable mean that is the middle of a looped service, so a supply upgrade may not be practical.

    M.


  • 0
    I agree with Andy, those tails in the picture are not in immediate danger of failure as far as I can see. This is not a case of panic. The old tails we are told travel up to another meter, in the flat above, and the meter operator will be responsible for the tails between the cutout and the meter (as no one else can connect them) and there is potentially a risk of abstraction. I suggest you contact them and point out that their installation is unsatisfactory. These cables do not belong to the consumer and are not part of a BNO installation. If you really need more power then the DNO will supply another distribution cable at a considerable cost, to supply the upstairs flat alone.
  • 0



    I'm not sure I'd go into panic mode about the rubber tails - it doesn't look like the insulation is falling off them and if they're embedded in masonry/plaster they're unlikely to start a fire even if severely overloaded (which seems unlikely). Certainly over-due for replacement and it sounds like that's planned anyway - so no point crying wolf.


         - Andy.


    https://communities.theiet.org/user_content/forums/topics/photos/27914/441e1955118398d5c372d5c581f9b1f4-huge-2021-03-08-11.11.21.jpg


  • 0
    Need to upgrade the cable to 25mm2 (and probably ask to upgrade fuse to 100A)

    Is the 1st floor flat's demand really that high?


    If it is, it might be worth having another conversation with the DNO - that looks to me like a looped supply with a black cut-out (60A max continuous?) with a single fuse that's already supplying both flats. I suspect an upgrade for 100A for just one flat isn't going to be a simple fuse replacement - due to the limitatons of both the exiting cut-out and the incoming cable that's presumably at present supply at least 3 installations.

     
    Best method/option?

    Installation methods will be interesting - as the meter is at the far end it'll be a Building Network rather than normal consumer's installation - so the practicalities of limiting the possibility of "abstraction" will restrict the choices available - generally cables would have to be difficult to 'tap' into and switchgear/fusing would need to be able to be sealed. Often "Ryefield" units or similar are used ... which aren't cheap.


    I'm not sure I'd go into panic mode about the rubber tails - it doesn't look like the insulation is falling off them and if they're embedded in masonry/plaster they're unlikely to start a fire even if severely overloaded (which seems unlikely). Certainly over-due for replacement and it sounds like that's planned anyway - so no point crying wolf.


         - Andy.
  • 0
    Agree that this needs URGENT attention as suggested in earlier posts.


    In the short term I STRONGLY ADVISE taking a cautious approach and minimising the risks.


    Remove any flammables stored near the cables.

    If not already existing, install a couple of smoke alarms TODAY, basic ones are sold in supermarkets.

    Do not touch or disturb the cables in any way.

    Minimise the consumption of electricity, to avoid heating up any marginal connections.

    If at all goes wrong, ring the fire brigade promptly.
  • 0
    I agree with Zoomy, SMBD, but if you withdraw the fuse, you black out two apartments. In fact, I think that the DNO should attend urgently, if not as an emergency, and disconnect that dangerous wiring.


    Then the parties can debate how to resolve the situation.


    What does our friendly representative say?
  • 0
    aligarjon:
    Zoomup:
    Chris Pearson:
    Zoomup:

     In EPN, only riser and lateral systems that are of an adoptable standard, or would have been at the time of construction, and installed post 1972 and before 1st June 2013. Indications of pre-1972 properties will include the existence of metal-clad cut-outs or VIR cables. 


    If those frightful cables are between the first service head and the meter, could the supplier be responsible?


    Might the leases say something about rights and responsibilities?




    The important thing is to get the urgent repairs done yesterday in my opinion. Leave the legal details and money concerns until later.


    Z.




    Are you having a laugh Zoom.  Are you saying do the work as it's urgent and hope you get paid ?


    Gary




    Hello Gary, what I am saying is that the owner should get the work done without delay.


    Z.


  • 0
    Zoomup:
    Chris Pearson:
    Zoomup:

     In EPN, only riser and lateral systems that are of an adoptable standard, or would have been at the time of construction, and installed post 1972 and before 1st June 2013. Indications of pre-1972 properties will include the existence of metal-clad cut-outs or VIR cables. 


    If those frightful cables are between the first service head and the meter, could the supplier be responsible?


    Might the leases say something about rights and responsibilities?




    The important thing is to get the urgent repairs done yesterday in my opinion. Leave the legal details and money concerns until later.


    Z.




    Are you having a laugh Zoom.  Are you saying do the work as it's urgent and hope you get paid ?


    Gary


  • 0
    Chris Pearson:
    Zoomup:

     In EPN, only riser and lateral systems that are of an adoptable standard, or would have been at the time of construction, and installed post 1972 and before 1st June 2013. Indications of pre-1972 properties will include the existence of metal-clad cut-outs or VIR cables. 


    If those frightful cables are between the first service head and the meter, could the supplier be responsible?


    Might the leases say something about rights and responsibilities?




    The important thing is to get the urgent repairs done yesterday in my opinion. Leave the legal details and money concerns until later.


    Z.


  • 0
    Zoomup:

     In EPN, only riser and lateral systems that are of an adoptable standard, or would have been at the time of construction, and installed post 1972 and before 1st June 2013. Indications of pre-1972 properties will include the existence of metal-clad cut-outs or VIR cables. 


    If those frightful cables are between the first service head and the meter, could the supplier be responsible?


    Might the leases say something about rights and responsibilities?


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