Repositioning non fire rated led kitchen spots.

Is the ceiling part of a fire compartment?

   - Andy.

Andy,

No fire door on the kitchen,so is it not a fire compartment?

                                                                     Regards Hz

The absence of a fire door does not guarantee  that there may or may not need to be fire break to the floor above 

If it was  one household with stairs and with no  fire doors on the landing, probably all one zone and no break needed, , but if it was  divided into flats with separate locking front doors, or more than 3 storeys high, so jumping from the windows in an emergancy is not possible, then maybe.

Mike.

According to Napits EIRC Codebreakers,open backed downlighters in an area with a room above

is a C2 whilst in an upstairs room with no rooms above is C3,so will fit fire hoods to the kitchen fittings.

Thanks for the advice.

                            Regards,Hz

BS 7671 says that the the structure of the building and the fire safety provisions must not be compromised. 


Cutting a hole in a plaster ceiling compromises the fire safety, not only does it permit the passage of fire it also allows smoke to pass.


In addition it reduces the acoustic insulation and may compromise a vapour barrier.


If the property requires a HMO licence the landlords would have to pay to have the floor coverings lifted over timber floors and have them over boarded with hardboard to stop smoke passing and that’s without any holes in the ceiling for down lights.

According to Napits EIRC Codebreakers,open backed downlighters in an area with a room above is a C2 whilst in an upstairs room with no rooms above is C3

That surprises me. Under some conditions perhaps but as a general rule it seems overzealous. As I understand it many ceilings have no particular requirements for fire, smoke or acoustic performance (especially those within typical house of two stories or less) - and in general BS 7671 only requires that fire resistance is not reduced below the required fire resistance (e.g. 527.2.1 for cable penetrations). AFAIK building regs take a similar attitude - it's perfectly OK to reduce what's already there as long as it still meets basic requirements.  Or have I mis-understood (again)?

   - Andy.

It surprised me too Andy. I haven't got NAPIT's Codebreakers, so not sure of the exact wording. But the open-backness of a fitting should bear no relevance to the closing of a hole in the ceiling. Surely it is the front of the fiiting which is relevant, ie whether there are any gaps, some have glass (which presumably is heat resistant to some extent being near a lamp) and a metal bezel, sealing the hole.  Both glass and metal have melting points well over the 800 deg  C  mentioned in ADB for sleeving and doorset hinges


Edit,; Depending on the type of metal I suppose, this being an engineering site :)

I agree.  That is complete rubbish.  Does it state a regulation or are they just making it up.  There is no requirement for fire rated fittings in a standard 2 storey house anywhere. Care needs to be taken that debris cannot get onto the lamps etc.  That is all.



Gary

I venture to suggest that there are two issues which may be confused here.


(1) Risk of fire arising from the luminaire. Some of them may be covered by Rockwool (or similar) and some may not. The ones which may not can get a bit too toasty under their blanket and, perhaps as a result, catch fire. That is what hoods are for.


(2) Breach of a fire barrier. AFAIK, that is what the intumescent seals are for.


So if I install a downlighter in an uninsulated bathroom ceiling, there is no C anything. If the householder covers it with Rockwool, is it now C3 or even C2? If so, is the solution not just the removal of the insulation. Not much to do with electrics if you ask me.


Same as if, for example, a (plug in) bathroom heater is smothered in (damp, but soon to be dry) towels.