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BS7671 or Wiring Regulations?

UKPN
There is a guy on here asking "what is the point of the wiring regulations?" He hasnt explained his question, so I would like to expand a little.

If you pass the City and Guilds exam, you are awarded a certificate titled "BS7671 Requirements for Electrical Installations" The term "Wiring Regulations" is not on the sheet.

However, I note that most job requirements ask for 2391/2396/18th Wiring Regulations. Virtually no one talks in the context of " BS7671"

I am wondering if members can give me an idea how the two terms are related, who makes the decisions on "regulations" and who is accountable for those decisions. I have noted errors/confusion on various posts these last few days caused by ambiguity in those regulations and it seems the person who should be protected by these regulations (the customer) is the last to be considered.

Ever the cynic, is the term "wiring regulations" retained  for sentimental reasons or just to sell the book?

Thanks in advance.


Regards, UKPNZap


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    AJJewsbury:
    Dutch of the Elm:

    Hi.  


    Bringing this back to PRS Regulations, what do people interpret to be the meaning of "electrical safety standards" then?  It seems unduly optimistic that a "BS 7671:2018" could actually mean BS 7671:2002 for example.  And the requirement for the installation to comply with "electrical safety standards," whatever the determined meaning be, relates to the installation, not just the test procedure.


    Should a tester feel secure in providing a clear EICR (i.e. with no C1s or C2s) for a rental property with an electrical installation that was erected to say, BS 7671:2002, and which is missing key features of later versions of BS 7671 such as a metal consumer unit, and (maybe) AFDDs? 


     


    The legislation is quite clear what it means at least on that point - "the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018" with a footnote that specifies the ISBN-13:978-1-78561-170-4 - so I don't see any wiggle room there at all.


    What's it's muddled up completely is whether the fundamental requirement is to pass an 18th EICR or actually meet every requirement of the 18th regulations - it says both yet we know they're fundamentally different. As it stands a it seems to me a landlord could get a satisfactory EICR and yet still be hauled up in court by a malicious tenant because the wiring had red & black cores.

      - Andy.




    And how would the tenant know the wiring had red and black cores?


  • 0
    AJJewsbury:
    ...As it stands a it seems to me a landlord could get a satisfactory EICR and yet still be hauled up in court by a malicious tenant because the wiring had red & black cores.

      - Andy.



    I agree with Graham, the sanctions available in the rental law are a fine levied by the council on the Landlord of up to £30K, the appeal process is heard at a first tier tribunal which can vary the amount of fine but not exceeding the £30K limit. So not exactly "hauled up in court" as would possibly be the case with a breach of ESQCR. The landlord could try and sue the contractor, and their professional indemnity insurance might pay out. 

    Good question though UKPN, with some good answers

    Edit; looking at ESQCR offenses;"



    Offences



    35.  Any generator, distributor, supplier, or meter operator or any agent, contractor or sub-contractor of any of the foregoing who fails to comply with any provision of these Regulations which applies to him, any person who fails to comply with regulation 18(3), 21, 22 or 25(1) and any consumer who fails to comply with regulation 8(4) or 34(2) shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale."

    Level 5 is at £5000 according to Criminal Justice Act 1982 (legislation.gov.uk) but you would i assume also have a criminal record if convicted. Note 21 and 22 are mentioned and can be any person, not just the landlord.


  • 0
    Level 5 is now unlimited fine.


    Any appeal to the FtT would (could) consider the issue of compliance in the first instance. When I spoke to a judge of the Property Chamber some months ago, she told me that there had been no specific preparations for enforcing the new law. I doubt that the Tribunal will be overburdened by appeals against enforcement.
  • 0
    And how would the tenant know the wiring had red and black cores?

    Spin off a ceiling rose cover and have a look?

      - Andy.
  • 0
    AJJewsbury:
    And how would the tenant know the wiring had red and black cores?

    Spin off a ceiling rose cover and have a look?


    Read the EICR and note the C3? (Although I am not sure that it even merits a C3. How would you improve the situation? Short of a re-wire, it would be very tedious over-sleeving all the terminations and more likely to do harm than good.)


    ETA: if there is even a scrap of brown and blue, the lack of a notice = C3, but if it is all red and black, the notice is not required.


  • 0
    AJJewsbury:
    And how would the tenant know the wiring had red and black cores?

    Spin off a ceiling rose cover and have a look?

      - Andy.


    No need, there is a sticker on the CU saying wiring colours to different versions. Which there wouldn't be if they were harmonised :)


  • 0
    All very interesting discussions - I agree with OlympusMons. The PRS regulations require the landlord to comply with BS 7671:2018, yet that very standard actually contains a requirement that implies that cabling installed to an earlier version is OK if there's a label stating two colours are used.


    Therefore, we can't really claim that an installation with "old colours" doesn't comply with the standard, can we?


    Otherwise, it would not be safe to extend or repair an old (pre 2004) circuit in any installation under any circumstances unless that circuit were reinstalled completely (or a departure declared on the MWC or EIC)?
  • 0
    yet that very standard actually contains a requirement that implies that cabling installed to an earlier version is OK if there's a label stating two colours are used.

    Not quite in my mind - you couldn't install red & black today, claiming it complied with say BS 7671:1992(*) and then say the installation complies with BS 7671:2018 - the "is OK" bit is only referring to exiting installations (which as only new work has to comply with current regulations) isn't covered by updated versions of the regs - I think it's overstepping the mark to say that red/black complies with BS 7671:2018.


    That was only one example anyway, there are tons of differences between BS 7671:2018 and earlier versions that wouldn't comply with BS 7671:2018 yet wouldn't result in an unsatisfactory EICR when conducted to BS 7671:2018 - not just colour codes, but RCDs for internal sockets or concealed cables, or lack of SPDs.


    * And before anyone says that you can't install to an earlier version today, 'cos the regs themselves say that the later version should apply after a certain date, consider that the law now demands compliance with earlier version(s). It's all just a complete mess.


       - Andy.

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