GTB:
Looking at the responses, diffrent people have diffrent views or their interpretation of a word/words is diffrent from others.
Leading engineering technology often and does lead time wise the standard/s for that item and to me ultimately down to the person/s that are defined as the designer, installer and inspector along with the proper defined contract arrangement between the purchaser of that install/inspection and the provider.
If people believe that the actions they take are appropriate and compliant with the appropriate statute legislation then great, job done.
If there is a fire, electric shock, explosion then the people involved will then have to demonstrate that their action/s were not a root cause leading to the event or a major contributor.
Or if its a loss of revenue/service on the purchasers side then a civil claim against those parties would also have to be defended.
I think this thread is getting to the end of the road, psychicwarrier, why not just do whatever you want and believe to be correct, and if there is ever a incident with your work Im sure you will be able to explain your actions were just and appropriate and didnt cause the fatality or building to burn down.
GTB
Thank you for the assesment of this thread. Others might still wish to contribute. To me you have missed the point, but you may be correct in that it is at an end for the point I was trying to make (not very wellperhaps). :-)
John Peckham:
Chris
How do you certify compliance with BS 7671 after you have installed a BS 7288 socket?
The fact that BS7671 does not approve of the use of BS 7288 sockets is not the same as its forbidding their use.
It would be nonsense to add a new socket without extending the circuit so let's assume that the cable is clipped direct, is in conduit, etc. so does not need RCD protection. Let's keep it simple with a distributor's earth.
411.3.3 only specifies, "additional protection by means of an RCD with a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA".
BS 7228 1 Scope "SRCDs are intended for use in circuits where the fault protection and additional protection are already assured upstream of the SRCD." Fault protection is assured by ADS. Additional protection (of the cables) is not required because the cables are not buried in walls.
What possible reason could there be for having SRCDs (and a standard for them) if they had to have upstream RCD protection of the same rating?
Let me flip the question around. In the course of I&T, how would you code a BS 7288 socket on the end of a surface mounted circuit without additional protection?
Chris Pearson:
Let me flip the question around. In the course of I&T, how would you code a BS 7288 socket on the end of a surface mounted circuit without additional protection?
That depends on when the SRCD was installed. The previous version of BS 7288 did not have the same assumption about protection already being in place upstream, and before 2018, there was no constraint on the standards for RCDs in BS 7671.
So, you could conclude a coding is unnecessary.
411.3.3 only specifies, "additional protection by means of an RCD with a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA".
davezawadi (David Stone):
That is a slight reversal of your usual position Graham, if I may say so. I&T is to the current standard, and this does not list a BS7288 as an RCD at all, so you have a newly installed socket without RCD protection. Therefore at a minimum, it must be a C3. I, therefore, suggest it is necessary to comply in the method suggested by JP above. IF BS7288 sockets were included in the BS7671 list as being suitable for local socket protection that would be fine, but until they are there is a problem. The solution is simple and reasonably cheap as long as a type AC RCD is suitable, the trend towards much more expensive types will probably make this suggestion of perhaps £15 in parts equally unviable if it is ever regulated by BS7671.
I disagree it's a reversal in position. The question moved from new work to EICR. So, I will illustrate how it's not a reversal by asking a question.
How would you code the use of any of the following devices, that you come across in a serviceable condition, but which do not comply with a current standard in accordance with Regulation 511.1:
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