Inadequate inspections on the safety of wiring in buildings across England are increasing the risk of fires, E&T has found. A flawed regulatory system has sparked a race to the bottom, with some businesses profiting at the expense of the public’s safety.
Please get in touch with any comments/thoughts you may have
18th Edition says "Shall" ... why would I think it is only optional?
The 18th also says colour coding of conductors shall be according to table 51 - i.e. brown/blue. So should it be a C2 to have red/black?
- Andy.
My reply to that is that you have not listened to what I said above. There is no reason at all why you cannot fit a 30mA RCD in the tails for a small amount of money. That provides all the protection that is required against every circumstance you have mentioned.
Even if the install appears new, you cannot do a "quick inspection". You might be able to save some time if the install was your work, but anything else? I certainly would not be happy with that.
The case for previous editions of the regulations being "Actually Dangerous" would be a legal minefield and you will not find anyone prepared to go there. The latest regulations possibly provide a greater degree of safety, but you would have to show that a previous version was much worse than the new ones being different, and accident statistics do not support that argument in any way. I'm afraid you would lose, although Coroners sometimes make remarks, prosecuting someone would be difficult as BS7671 is not statutory. You also need to understand that upgrading every installation in the country because of a regulation change is impossible, so a suggestion that this is done is unreasonable. The same applies to proving someone negligent for not using a particular coding, unless you can show actual perceived danger you are onto a looser. You are again stuck in the "but what if" loop, which will only harm yourself. Showers have not proved dangerous, you may think they are because there is electricity and water, but they are well apart as you know.
Even without an RCD, what is the danger? The device is class 1 so Earthed. The element could fail but this will trip the supply. Someone could take a knife to the cable whilst showering but that would be self inflicted. So what could go wrong? OK a double or triple fault. This is extremely unlikely as you must admit.
I think a degree of balance is required here.
Safe, safer, safest.
Note - there's no 'unsafe' written there.
So, installation to 15th ed and no faults. Safe according to 15th ed.
15th ed installation but with RCD protection added - so safer.
15th ed installation with all type A RCBOs added - safest.
Important to note: - all 3 versions are safe.
Other problems - installers and inspectors unduly focused upon filling boxes with test result figures without understanding what the figures actually tell them.
maximum permitted number values being constantly altered without real necessity by BS 7671 - is this constant fiddling really needed? Take Cmin for example - in the real world a Zs measurement will never be the same if repeated, same with the tinkering with the nominal voltage figure - 230 instead of the real world 240v we all regularly see? Was that really necessary?
How accurate in reality do r1+r2 values really have to be? How frequently will these change with wearing light switch contacts for example? Surely at best they could be substituted with a 'Go-No-Go' test and still be satisfactory?
Some testing is indeed vital, and in certain environments critical, but this rush ti fill in the figures boxes without understanding what the figures represent is a waste of time. When I did my 2391 the lecturer said 'forget the fancy test kit in the 1st instance - that should come much later. To begin with, use the senses God gave you and you will find around 90% of the problems, which your test instruments will confirm for you later on in the process. How many actually go round an installation with their eyes, ears, and nostrils open? And how may jut whip off the CU cover and bang the test prods straight on and brandish the pen and notebook 1st?
Experienced inspectors? I did the old 2391 back in 2002, the old version with the non book 1 hr written exam. I spent 9 months solid doing I&T for a LA. I have now ceased doing it completely because everyone wants a 'pass' for nothing, and I couldn't compete with drive-bys.
Sometimes I just wonder at how valid and necessary some of the tests we are required to carry out really are?
"My reply to that is that you have not listened to what I said above. There is no reason at all why you cannot fit a 30mA RCD in the tails for a small amount of money. That provides all the protection that is required against every circumstance you have mentioned."
A bad move I say. A single R.C.D. goes against the Regs.
531.3.2.
You are aware that 'Electrical Safety First' is related to Certsure and the NICEIC? That '20'000 fires per annum' figure has been constantly bandied around for decades now and has been pretty much rendered meaningless by it's overuse. Sure it's a headline grabber but..........
What happened to the statement " When preparing an EICR the inspector does not need to know the historical details of the Wring Regulations, because the EICR is a comparison against the current edition, not earlier editions, which means you cannot always vary the codes depending on the age of the electrical installation"? It was of course easier when we had Code 4 which basically meant it doesn't comply with the current edition, but don't worry about it and Code 3 take it more seriously.
As regards Davids' comment above "Even if the install appears new, you cannot do a "quick inspection". You might be able to save some time if the install was your work, but anything else? I certainly would not be happy with that." my classic example was doing an EICR on the same Housing Association flat three times in less than six months, having fixed all the faults that needed fixing after the first one and the flat being occupied for less than a week during that time, the Suppliers Revenue Protection Officer turned up whilst I was doing the third EICR to find out if someone had bypassed the meter because the usage was do low, then the Housing Association manager said I was too quick doing the third inspection
Sometimes I don't know whether to laugh or cry, it's a good job it's now the start of the Bank Holiday weekend.
Some interesting comments today, but I am still not going to lose any sleep over my 40 year old installation. C3 for lack of RCD additional protection (there are shed loads of supplementary bonding) is the worst that it gets.
Look at the number of registered players, quoting low rates for EICR's; I suspect that these use office bound, qualified supervisors and apprentices or non registered employees in the field. If it was made necessary for all copies of EICR's, to be sent for vetting by an independent, impartial body; this should monitor the problem with a view to correction.
The government has seen fit to change the rental industry; mandatory electrical reports only by qualified electricians, are now required on rental properties: see the link https://e-certsure.com/WCP-6U565-KMQFNB-42R6CO-1/c.aspx All electricians listed and permitted to display the mark are registered with an electrical Competent Person Scheme Operator, and have been authorised by the Government to self-certify that their work is compliant with Building Regulations. This means they meet strict entry requirements, their work is regularly assessed, demonstrating their ability and ongoing competence, and that it meets the correct standards. In particular, landlords are no longer allowed to engage anyone not on the register, to carry out electrical inspection reports; in addition, a copy of an electrical inspection report is now required to be submitted to the tenant.
I think we can all suspect what goes on and how the standards can be raised; but the blame lies to an extent on the door of the scheme providers; who among them will stand up, be counted and jeopardise their "non profit" making stance?. asif!
Jaymack
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