I have never heard of C&G 'Experienced Worker qualification in my life before. Neither have I ever heard of something called 'AM2E' . Are these things the exclusive preserve of my old country rather then here in the UK?

And have they now split the old 2391 into 2 separate parts? What happened to the old 12 week course followed by an 1 hr practical and a 1 hr written exam?

No, its a UK thing. It's been around for probably 3 years now. The Governing Bodies have now stated that to be an Electrician, an NVQ3 is required. Many people over the age of 50 do not have this, and their apprenticeship/training do not give them the equivalent, so cannot now get, or renew their membership of JIB/NAPIT/NICEIC.

To counteract this, C&G brought in the 2346, which is a portfolio to show that the Worker can meet the standards for an NVQ3. It involves a lot of picture taking of work in progress and completed, to show that that person is competent. If they meet the standard, they get the NVQ3.

The AM2E is just the AM2 that apprentices do, along with a bit of conduit work.

IMO, it's just a large money making exercise. The work submitted has to include pics of the person applying. But there is no saying they have done it, they just need to show their pics cutting/fitting various things, however that doesnt show them doing the actual install. I could take pics of my trainee doing stuff, they'll look great in the pics, but they wouldnt have any clue about doing it on their own. 6 - 10 site visits by an Assessor would be a far better way of judging the competentcy of a person, but that is beyond the realms of C&G it appears.

2391 - no idea what is happening with it now, but it was more than one practical when I did it, I think there were 2 fault testing rigs, one testing rig, and a 3 hour exam. It did split into 2 courses around 10 years ago 2394/5 iirc. and has since been resurrected in a slightly different form.I think Steve Briggs, who posts here occassionly ,has lamented that standards have dropped since it was changed.

The candidate has the following but still cannot gain Qualified Certifier status in ROI (Qualified Certifier is much the same as Qualified Supervisor status with NICEIC and NAPIT);

* has served a full period of apprenticeship and has more than five years post-apprenticeship experience

* has met the learning outcomes of the 2346-03 Electrotechnical Experienced Worker Qualification and awarded the qualification

* has sat and passed the City and Guilds Level 3 Award 2382 BS7671 2018 requirements for electrical installations

* has sat and passed the City and Guilds Level 3 2391 in Initial and Periodic Inspection and Testing of Electrical Installations

* has sat and passed the safety critical NET end-point AM2E assessment

* is a holder of the ECS Gold Card indicating that he is a qualified electrician in the UK

* is a the Qualified Supervisor on the NICEIC register of approved electrical contractors and is subject to annual inspection.

* has sat and passed the City and Guilds Level 2 2407 Certificate in Electrical Testing and Verification of Electrical Installations (Ireland)

* owns and operates a relatively large electrical contracting business operating across Ireland

* demonstrably maintains his practical competencies and subscribes to the need for CPD for himself and his operatives.

The achievement of the Experienced Worker Qualification and the AM2E meets the criteria for an ECS gold card application, the ECS Check and Spark-Safe Licence to Practise schemes under CPD NI PGN 01/16.

The Experienced Worker Assessment is also recognised in the Electrotechnical Assessment Specification as equivalent to an industry apprenticeship.

The Electrotechnical Assessment Specification was prepared by a management committee that included representatives of the competent person scheme providers, trade associations, the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, the Welsh Government, Electrical Safety First and the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET).

The Advanced Craft Certificate is a requirement for QC status and maps to a level 5 on the European Qualification Framework while the 2346-03 Electrotechnical Experienced Worker Qualification, like the apprentice route NVQ Level 3, maps to a level 4.

So it would seem even if you are an above-average electrician with the full suite of Level 3 competence qualifications in the UK, currently you will not meet the requirements for QC status in the ROI. 

I think it sounds like a protectionist over-bureaucratic process driven by money and  not the best interests of the industry. Very EU-friendly so no surprise there.

whjohnson said:

Very EU-friendly so no surprise there.

I beg to differ. The EU has a pretty detailed system for mutual recognition of qualifications. If ROI does not accept British qualifications, presumably it is a result of Brexit.

NI for all intents and purposes has to still abide by eu rules, which we all know are protectionist at worst, and corrupt at best.

whjohnson said:

which we all know are protectionist at worst, and corrupt at best.

Please don't assume to speak for all of us. I strongly disagree with your assertion.

The real question should be do the ROI and NI have more or less electrocutions, or electrcally started fires, than a) each other b) England Scotland or Wales?
The rest is so much grandstanding, and  Brexit is not really part of it, apart from perhaps making folk who need to follow 2  sets of rules poorer - you could just as eaily argue that the C and G qualifications or even BS7671, are an unreasonable barrier.

Mike

The situation is only going to get worse and that’s going to happen very rapidly if this current UK Government is allowed to trash all the laws and regulations of “EU origin” we have are trashed, completely ignoring the fact that we were part of the legislative body that created them in the first place.

I’m of the “Auf Weidersen” generation, I didn’t go to Germany to work but got very close to doing so, as many guys I still work with did, many others went to Australia and took their families, qualification recognition was never an issue in the 80’s and 80’s, only any job here in the U.K. or abroad you would get a start and the foreman would check it at morning break time to decide if you were staying or going, though I remember a few guys never made it past twenty past eight in the morning.

Over the last five years I have covered England and Wales for three bathroom companies, even that means I have worked under two different Part P regimes, the UK Government and Welsh Government cannot even agree to match legislation, all these problems are home grown not due to the EU.

My Google maps timeline shows I have down the equivalent of covering the whole of the Island of Ireland, but work wise it also shows that as an electrician I have had to abide by different rules depending on where I was.

I agree  with Mike here. But I do think that the more rules there are, the more expensive it becomes as layer upon layer of useless ill-conceived nonsense is continuously heaped upon the shoulders of the little man at the bottom of the inverse pyramid. We need fewer but clearer rules if we need any at all.

More rules mean more unproductive non-jobs for the otherwise unemployable at the expense of the Little Man at the bottom of the pile.