Zs said:

I miss fault finding and I&T.  The local council won't take my I&Ts anymore

Zs, welcome back! AFAIK, you do not have to be registered to do I&T and it isn't really up to the council whether they accept them or not. Nothing in the ESSPRS Regs requires I&T to be done by a registered person, just a qualified, i.e. competent one.

Zs said:

Steel conduit

Steel conduit! I rather enjoy it, but I doubt that yer average domestic sparks would have a clue.

I really sympathise with your situation. I was happy to pay Stroma's annual fee, but NAPIT's was twice as much and more than could be justified for the odd job for family and friends.

I shall get my state pension in less than a couple of years, not that I am counting the days! :-)

Zs said:

Lyle, is your college a NET college?  I'd gladly come to yours.   I've noticed a touch of not being taken seriously with this process. understandable I suppose but I did think those days were gone.

Please let me know if there has been any change - before I go of to a college and get handed a bundle of SY cable to connect against the clock  (are they really asking for SY cable?)

Zs, 

I would be more than happy to assist you in any way I can. My centre is in Antrim Northern Ireland. I am sure I could get them to reduce their fee and I will waive mine. The education I get from this forum is priceless so if I can give something back (apart from the IET membership fee which I happily part with) then I will with alacrity!

I produced a simple, straightforward portfolio for my candidates, a bit like a long-winded form but one that can easily be completed in a relatively short period. Obviously, you will need to meet the performance objectives and range criteria.  These will be subject to both internal and external verification. It really should be wee buns for  someone with your experience. 

No need to visit the Centre but if you wanted to you would be very welcome. We are on the doorstep of Belfast International Airport and the AM2 Centre is not far away although I would think you could do the AM2E at any NET Centre. By the way, the 2346 is a stand alone qualification. You do need to have the 18th and at least the initial verification part of the 2391. The AM2E is only required if you want the ECS Gold Card or QS status for NICEIC etc.

And to be clear, you dont need to sign up with my Centre for me to assist you!

With respect to the SY cable, yes still on the AM2 and AM2E. As I understand it, the EIC you will do already has it listed under the details of departures section. 

PM me if you want to find out more.

Zs!! Welcome back!

You and I could have a good old fashioned complain about his situation for sure..........

I've caved and finally done the AM2E route now

The portfolio bit between August and December

The AM2E (practical) just this last week (Thursday to Saturday) and I'm awaiting results this coming Friday but I've no doubts it'll all be OK.

It cost £1800 for the portfolio bit (which I've got a certificate for and I have no freaking idea what that certificate gets me or has improved myself or proves anything - what value added does this certificate get me - can I apply for a better job or will it get me in front of employers as a good looking bit on my CV - as an employer I can assure all and sundry that it likely will not - like the plethora of numbers that each apprentice that I've had has put across my desk they mean next to zero to me - so you've got the city and guilds 2356 2300 or 7854 or 9012 or 6374 or 84xxxx  (I'm mostly making up numbers here) but what ever the number, they each have resulted in a gold for them, but not for me as I didn't do an AM2 20 years ago - nor was I offered to do an AM2 - when I finished college 20 years ago, they just gave me my certificates, that were hard earned at night school while I worked at the V&A museum as a light bulb changer/learner electrician during the day, and they said after three years  - there you go - you're qualified now - cheers and congratulations. I later got my inspection and testing in 2004. This - years later - in 2009 was good enough for the NICEIC after I had been trading on my own in commercial projects for 2 years and I became an Approved contractor and QS an responsible person etc etc in 2009)

Back to now, Once I had completed the portfolio bit, I paid £800 for the practical bit, (AM2E) again - what does that bit get me? I know that combined they'll both get me a JIB gold card and should I stop trading and want to be a QS for another company, it'll let me continue to be a QS.

There lies its value obviously. Employers won't recognize what I've done though (I recon should I want a job.)

Does this AM2E bit negate all I've done before? Seems so?

I'll then need to pay for the ECS test, that I've done 3? times over the years and It was the same very time. I've done the supervisors CSCS card for the last 20 years, I've got the SMSTS. I know the ECS is more electrical bias but come on - its a little basic really. 

Then I'll need to pay for a JIB Gold card.

Why the NICEIC for example cant just issue an AM2E certificate to me I'll never know; 13 years and hence - 13 days of chatting to, being assessed by, and my jobs, certificates, RAMS etc checked by the NICEIC area engineer means those guys know me way, way, way better than the NET chap ever will on this latest debacle. 

I know though that the problem stemmed from job pressures to become an electrician, where in order to get a job you need to show experience, but you cant get experience without a job, so one way of showing "experience", or to get your CV seen by prospective employers  was to get your academic qualifications such as  City and guilds level 1 & 2, inspection and testing, even the design course 2396 etc before you ever even see even the real job. Now employers have had their fill of of those chaps and want more.............so we are where we are. There's no use in closing the stable barn door now - the horse - including myself has bolted.............

So I, too, did the AM2E.  Your assessor might well know way less than you in particular do. Don't sweat it, just do the step by step hoops required. Tick the box. 

And hope that someone, somewhere decides that with both the portfolio and the wiring up in a phone booth - you are - in fact - an electrician. 

The practical test has the 3 phase DB mounted, nearly ALL the containment in, the back boxes and light switches in place, the light and MT4 trunking already in place. , the S Plan accessories in place and half the S plan system wired up already.

You'll need to do a 90' metal conduit bend, a through box, and an off set into the S plan programmer possition which is also in place. You'll also need to do some plastic conduit, with an offset and a 90' bend to a double socket pattress already mounted in place. 

Its straight forward but definitely a time trial, which seems to dictate your competency. 

You kind of need to re-do the 18th edition exam (Which I had to show a certificate for before the'd let me onto the course to begin with) but you need to show some xtra knowledge by showing where you'll find the information in the guidance notes 3 and the electricians guide to the building regulations (John Peckham has his name in credits for at the front of that one - well done John!! )

Then there's a fault finding module that was straight forwards but for a fault on the switched side of the S plan that you need to find on a limited time trial. 

Give me a call and we'll have a mutual complain. Good luck anyway. 

The MIT (Motor industry training no less) centre in West Byfleet is a NET center that's not too far from where you used to live if you still live there? To be fair I put my first apprentice through that college in 2014.

Kind Regards 

Tatty

In addition to that - we were explicitly told not to test anything to do with the S plan system............only up to the switch fuse supplying the S plan. I've just wired the S plan up - what do you mean don't test any part of it?? Not even R2.?.........

The day before this practical, I phone JP to ask - how the hell do I test an S plan system? Thanks for the chat JP. After some discussion we both agreed that's it s not exactly conventional; clearly there's some switched supplies after the programmer you can't test conventionally and you dont want to do a conventional IR on that lot, we discussed what could be done. Mostly I was hoping there was a standard way to do the job that everyone else knew that I didn't as I don't know if I've ever done an S plan system..........I've done heaps of commercial plant rooms and heating and chilling systems, BMS etc - I just follow the design drawings - I never asked if they had a name.I've even done quite a few domestic underfloor heating wet systems, but I didnt know what they were called either - just follow the wiring diagram. 

I hope my experience of this course, just means that I am experienced, and maybe most who are will have as (easy/frustrating wate of time) straight forward  a time as I seem to have had.

I really don't mean to demean the value of this qualification at all as I understand why it has been bought into existence, and as with my original qualifications (City and Guilds 2360) it'll offer those who are working in the industry a chance to get qualified; which was exacly what was sold to me 20 years ago when I did the 2360. Deja Vu going on here...........

Wow.  Thank you for those replies.

The NVQ3, to me, is an expensive time and money inconvenience but I can do it. I'm  leaving every notifiable job on this journey a bit unfinished and I will complete and notify later.  I assume that is the portfolio you mention Tatty?  The AM2E, on the other hand fills me with dread reading your words.  Largely because of working to a time slot and of course because I never really was a boiler person. I did the Honeywell boiler wiring course course way back and since then always had time to scratch my head and research any boiler I was dealing with.

Surely things have moved on from S plan and Y plan in recent 'smart' years?   Hey ho. 

I didn't realise AM2E was so involved in terms of regs and guidance notes.  I should be OK with them because I  use them daily,  but will reinstate the books on the sofa.    Ooh, I must digress - I bought a copy of Birds Electrical Circuit Theory and Technology recently.  What an amazing book.  Nerd enhancing.  

I shall be practising hard before AM2E comes along.  Lyle, I'm going to be asking you about whether or not you can run me through a mock AM2E when the time comes.  I reckon that would do me right and I love NI.

What I'm seeing in this conversation is trauma.  I was planning to get it all bagged before posting but the support thing, you know.  People must be leaving in droves?  I know what you do and how well you do it Tatty - it must have been a backward step for you. Did you have to do this despite being registered with the NIC and not letting it go?  I sort of thought I was in this situation because I gave my registration up for a couple of years.   So is this affecting everyone with our type of qualification and industry experience?    Mine is almost identical to yours - 2360 2391 etc. and I have the 2396. 

Chris, I want to see your birth certificate!  I don't believe you ;).  I'm too old to be doing this kind of thing myself but the wheels aren't falling off yet so I suppose I'm not thinking that far ahead.    I know the local BC are supposed to accept I&T from anyone,  but they've got it into their heads that registered is required and I've not got the mojo to fight it.   Nor would the insurers of a thatched cottage I have always looked after in terms of I&T. 

What I do notice though is that our newcomers to the industry like to work with me, probably not scary, and I'm giving something back nowadays. They struggle to know which end of a screwdriver to hold but they have the required badges. so that's alright then. ...

This isn't supported by the company I work for and I don't need it for them so I'm glad to read yours.  Sticking with it.  This might be turning into a personal pride issue.  Watch this space.

thank you, Zs

I'm in the same boat. I've paid my fee, but havent had time to do the portfolio yet, I've been doing an ASHP design course for the last month. To make you sick, I paid £1350 with 'The Guilds'.

I've just spent 9 months on a large site, so, hopefully, there will be enough pics for me. Of the 15 or so sparkies on site, I was the only one without a Gold Card. Site Supervisor card got me on, and, I was the only one they trusted to fit out the plant rooms. Strange that, on paper, I was the least qualified one on site!

As for new entrants with Gold Cards, well, I've met quite a few recently, and I wouldnt trust many of them. The last day on site was wiring up some outside bollard lights. A feed of 3 core SWA from one light to the next. Terminated in plastic Wiska boxes. I started to do a part finished one, and asked where the SWA banjos were. I was told they werent required, as the boxes are plastic. When I pointed out that it was to protect the outgoing cable, I was told to not bother as it was the last day on site. They all got a rocket up their backsides because of that. Not the type of people you'd want wiring anything without supervision, yet they had their Gold Cards!

Zs said:

What I'm seeing in this conversation is trauma.  I was planning to get it all bagged before posting but the support thing, you know.  People must be leaving in droves?  I know what you do and how well you do it Tatty - it must have been a backward step for you. Did you have to do this despite being registered with the NIC and not letting it go?  I sort of thought I was in this situation because I gave my registration up for a couple of years.   So is this affecting everyone with our type of qualification and industry experience?    Mine is almost identical to yours - 2360 2391 etc. and I have the 2396. 

I've done this because - in September last year - the NICEIC effectively said (my interpretation here) that I'm not qualified without this........I can remain as a QS going forward but should I wish to change roles or let my membership lapse, then back into the unqualified bin I shall go. 

I have the 2396 too - so tried to go straight for the JIB black card, but it seems you have to get the gold card first? 

The NICEIC - in the industries I find my self running around in these last 10 years especially, seems to be becoming less and less valuable and the JIB more and more valuable. I've lost a couple of contracts because I'm not JIB and not a JIB company so I need to move towards JIB anyway.

Also I see individual competency being unavoidable in the near future where we will all have to be able prove individual competencies........which is OK, tentatively; I fear, though, this will turn into licencing and we'll also all get pigeonholed into sectors of the electrical world that we are "licenced" to do. So if my card says I'm a domestic electrician for example, I'll be barred from doing commercial, or BMS, or simply install fire alarms or what ever the case might be. "Thin edge" and "wedge" come to mind.....Certainly in bigger commercial sites only the JIB gold card has ever held any relevance for the individual electricians working on the project. For myself, a black card would be more useful, so I'll probably try to sort that out next. (assuming I pass the AM2E and get approved for a gold card of course)

Kind Regards

Tatty