Of course this only applies to new people who want to be QSs. It does not apply to existing QSs or electricians who carry out installation work.I wonder why that is?

I have asked the question before why cant a professionally registered engineer holding a Level 3 qualification in the Wiring Regs. and a Level 3 qualification in inspection and testing with supervisory experience be a QS? 

Not only for new people who want to be QS’s but also for any electrician seeking recognition as a qualified spark. Many public sector contracts and blue chip companies require the competence make-up of the workforce to be made known as part of the pre-tender qualification and appropriately audited after work commences. 
I know many contractors are not employing any one without the ECS/JIB card, even when agency workers are used. So if an electrician wants to have full range flexibility in the jobs he/she applies for, then the card is essential.

Like JP, I would be stuffed! However, I hold on to my QS status with NICEIC which I acquired 100,000 years ago!

lyledunn said:

Like JP, I would be stuffed! However, I hold on to my QS status with NICEIC which I acquired 100,000 years ago!

Plenty of us in that boat i suspect. Although i acquired mine only 95000 years ago.

It seems to me, (not an electrician but a Registered Engineer), an unnecessary restriction.  To become a Registered Engineer the Engineering Council define a range of Recognised Qualifications in UKSpec that are regarded as Underpinning Knowledge and Understanding, but it recognises that not all applicants have the necessary academic education.  For those applicants, UKSpec states:

“Many potential registrants have not had formal training to the

required level but are able to demonstrate they have acquired

the necessary underpinning knowledge through substantial work

experience. Applicants who have acquired their underpinning

knowledge and understanding through experiential learning or

other qualifications can submit the relevant information to their Licensee for initial assessment”

I am surprised that the Experienced Worker qualification does not have similar provision.

David

I was an NICEIC Approved Contractor for 15 years and was my companies QS and PDH. I only did inspection and testing. I am an engineer but I did have a JIB Approved electrician Golf Card although I have never been an electrician. 

I did a 3 year electrical technician apprenticeship that including electrical installation. I have taught electrical installation, Level 3 Regs, Level 3 inspection and testing and the Level 4 design course. I was a senior technical advisor to a competent person scheme. However I could not now be a QS , and I have no desire to be one, unless I purchase a very expensive training package.

I have to ask why not what is it I lack?

JP

I have the 2361 and 2362 as core quals plus 2391-52 and 2382-22. I served my indentured apprenticeship with Norweb. I do not have the letter they gave me close to 40 years ago, NORWEB (Now electricity North West) have confirmed they have not kept records. My National Insurance records show I was with NORWEB for the 4 years of the apprenticeship and beyond...

But, say ECS / JIB you don't have the formal letter confirming apprenticeship completion so no gold card because 'computer says No'.

ECS have stated in their own documents those quals at the time would have been part of an indentured apprenticeship. City & Guilds have confirmed the same. Electricity North West training academy have confirmed it would have been an indentured apprenticeship.
The qualifications that I have the certificates for confirms the same. National Insurance records show the employment from 1980 onwards.

It really is a nonsense that no one can apply some sound logical 'case by case' assessment. Letters go missing, more so when 40 years ago it could not have been known it might one day be needed to confirm what all at that time knew. A time when common sense still was in the room.

25 years electrical experience. Still, won't be many guys left who qualified pre AM2 perhaps that is how they are dealing with it. Let them all die off and they can take it up with God.

Yet I know people just passed AM2 who have never rewired, worked with containment, never tested anything away from a classroom and so forth. Very limited knowledge and yet considered more 'competent'. Perhaps ECS / JIB would like to give a reasoned reply? They have refused all my requests for one. Rather, from the tone of the replies received, it is one of 'we are not stopping you from working in the sector... this is just how it is, now stop being SO annoying'.

With all the examples in this thread people are being prevented from earning a living by a scheme set in place by people who seem to be unaccountable and out of touch. A process streamlined to suit an admin system out of touch with reality.
Preventing someone from working should be a decision not taken lightly and deserves full reasoned decision as to why in 'your' case 'you' cannot now work in your trade. If such should be an inconveneience for these scheme providers who push such onto the industry well what a shame, skip a meeting and provide the reason for your decision.
It was the case that the industry self-regulated, the good guys were kept on sites those useless were kicked off site and word spread as to who knew what they were doing and who did not. Now, as is so often the case with such, the intent is lost and it becomes all a tick box exercise. Little Briton read the future well... "computer says No"

It also applies to people that would like to get a JIB Gold card. 

Back in 2000, the industry said to all of us, who were working in the industry, with no qualifications, and - as in my case - was too old to do an apprenticeship (23 years old) as I had rent etc to pay..........here is a route into the industry, so that you CAN be recognised as qualified.....I subsequently did the C&G2360 until college, and my employers both said, "That's it, you are now qualified" and a couple of years later went on to do my inspection and testing, and 5 years later on I became the QS.  

Then, at some point in time, everyone got on to this "short cut" to being qualified and eventually the industry said, NO. Those guys that have used this route to getting qualified, are just not good enough.........hence why this AM2E business has been created.

Essentially this AM2E business - its a short cut into the industry so as to avoid an apprenticeship. The same as the G&G2360. 

An apprentice who is less than 20 maybe, an apprenticeship, is do-able as the wages are usually very low and they still have the support of Mum and Dad.

MOST adults who come into the industry after, say, 20 - cant afford to do an apprenticeship.  No chance. So everyone will look to this AM2E route. 

For clarity, in 2019 - I've done the AM2E route; However I fear that the AM2E route, given time, will go the same way as the G&G2360 and subsequent variations of the same qualification. 

I think most adults, with some minimal site work experience, perhaps even only experience on houses of friends, plus level 1&2 - can blag weather they've been "in" the industry for 5 years. With no real idea of what I'm talking about, just guessing, Dare I say, most of the guys on the AM2E route probably can say they've just not done containment, or MEWPs or 3 phase....? But can get a picture, and do a write up, and stumble through the practical test, which was fairly easy, especially if someone teaches you to follow a wiring diagram. 

I hope this AM2E lasts the test of time.

John - as far as my opinion goes - which not far - but you're more than capable of being QS for anyone; there needs to be a route for people clearly above and beyond capable to be a QS if they'd like to. 

I'm guessing again - I think the NIC lot, probably made too many self employed, in the domestic sector primarily, well meaning people, into QS for a one man band or small group - who then went back into the employed world and tried sell their QS credentials to BIG companies, and that's a whole new world, completely unlike being responsible for yours or a couple of guys work.  The NIC had to do something when shouts of - "most of your guys can't even get a JIB Gold card" echoed across the board room table. Hence, why I suspect they've done what they've done and aligned the JIB criteria and the NICEIC criteria.

To be clear - I am that guy - who maybe couldn't QS really big commercial jobs. I've been a QS for 15 years but look after 3 or 4 or 5 guys, less than 10 at my very best moments.