Code for a concentric cable on domestic EICR ?

Hi guys.  How would you code a Concentric cable feeding a detached domestic garage.  Cable is i believe a short run under a tarmac drive although i can't find the house connection ( probably behind kitchen cupboards ). There is plenty wrong with how it has been connected but specifically the use of the cable. I was thinking a C3 as i don't think it's dangerous as unlikely to be damaged in the ground because of the tarmac.  Any thoughts please.  

Thanks Gary

  • How has it been used? How many cores and Is the outer used as PE, N or PEN? Or is it split-con? If the outer is N (e.g. local electrode for the garage) how solidly is N connected to Earth? e.g. is there any upstream switching, or is it all simple joints all the way back to the cutout?

       - Andy.

  • Spilt con is OK in a domestic setting, although for several editions of the regs  now (early 2000s ?), it has not qualified as truly 'armoured' as some of the wires that surround the live cores are 'neutralled' not earthed  But routed on the surface or in an  obvious duct providing mechanical protection,  it is still better than T and E, and can certainly be used where that would be acceptable. Example image  from here

    I'd be wary of  plain concentric on consumer side of the meter,

    as there is no CPC (or no neutral, depending how wired.) It may be OK with neutral on the outside so long as inside a metal trunking acting as CPC I suppose.

    More info needed to decide, but low risk.

    Mike.

  •  The whole install is a mess. 

  • So obviously the way it is terminated is terrible. The cable is under ground below tarmac so won't be dug by accident unless they redo the drive. Probably only under ground a meter or so. So potentially it could be reused without digging drive up ?  

  • I'm struggling to make out the details on that picture - but the white strand sticking up between the strands used as N and those used as a c.p.c. suggests it might be an (older) version of split-con with all outer strands bare and just an insulating spacer between those used for N and those used for PE (newer versions tended to have individual 'insulation' on the N strands instead (well more of a plastic covering, not necessarily up to proper insulation standards)). With that type I think it was conventional to sleeve the N strands for termination, but if it was inside an enclosure, it's probably not an absolute requirement.

    If it is split-con, while it doesn't meet today's specs, it'll act just as well as an armoured cable if struck by a digging too - provided the N really is close to Earth potential. Likewise the lack of proper insulation on the N part of the outer (just a sheath), doesn't fully comply with today's words, the actual risks will be minimal provided N remains close to Earth. Hence the earlier question about the reliability of the upstream N connections. Solid bolted connections all the way (like a c.p.c.) would be good, DP switching (or MCBs etc) including the N less so, as there likelihood of a contact failing, leaving the N open and L connected, increases; SP switching (or fuses or MCB) in the N alone would of course be right out.

      - Andy.

  • Thanks for all your help as always guys.   Gary

  • I agree it is dog rough - at the very least there should be an enclosure around that RCD the exposed live is a C1. But if N and E can be kept separate then it could be remade neatly in a proper containment,  and re-used. It may then score a C3 on someone else's radar but we already know its not quite what we would do if we had a clean sheet installation.

    Mike

  • Unless they are heavily oxidised, it looks to me like the N strands have a thin layer of black insulation on them.