Checking if 1.0mm cpc on 2.5mm cable is acceptable for EICR and where the limit is

Just want to check my calculations and conclusions are correct.
(been meaning to do this for a while)

Checking if a 2.5/1.0mm cpc is acceptable on a 32A  ring final for an EICR.

In this example looking at data for MK 32 A MCB MK data sheet

In the graphs I am assuming the horizontal is PSCC/PFC. In my example I have a PFC of 700A, therefore I2T = about 5000 A/sec

Energy withstand for 1.0cpc  K2S2 = 115*115 * 1.0 = 13,225

I2t needs to be less than K2S2

5000 < 13,225  therefore I am ok.

If I look at the graph and find I2t of 13,000 it looks like I am ok for pscc/pfc  up to about 3K, bit difficult to read with linear graduation on a log scale.

In reality the B type actually switches in 10msec with 5 * rated current rather than the 100msec typically used in calculations.


  • Really not sure what you are saying Sparkingchip. What parameters did you use to reach whatever conclusion you came to? Did you use manufacturers let-through data against the S2k2 of the cable? Maybe if you set out an example calculation, it would be clearer to me. 

  • Part P of the Building Regulations came into effect 1st January 2005 and the original version had “useful information” in it, including guidance about 2.5 mm twin and earth cable with a 1.0 mm CPC.



    https://kentbuildingcontrol.co.uk/pdf/approved-document-p-2005.pdf

    The general consensus after doing those calculations twenty odd years ago was that a BS60898 B32 MCB could be okay, a BS3036 30-amp fuse will probably be inadequate, but the best option is probably the BS1361 30-amp fuse.

    As the original Part P said there’s various options regards upgrading the cable and/or the consumer unit, depending on the circumstances, not a set answer.

    But, a lot has changed in the last twenty years and it’s unlikely that anyone will use a BS1361 fuse in a consumer unit to protect a socket ring circuit these days, leaving a less favourable choice the MCB.

  • What PSSC did you assume ? 

  • It was more than twenty years ago and my notes are in the loft, but I would assume less than 1 kA, which is realistic and if it was more than that a BS3036 fuse board needs replacing anyway.

  • All these installations are at least forty three years old, it’s unlikely many remain unchanged and as originally installed.


    1969-72 to 1981:

    • 2.5 mm2 flat PVC/PVC sheathed cables manufactured with 1.0 mm2 CPC.

    1981 onwards:

    • 2.5 mm2 flat PVC/PVC sheathed cables had CPC enlarged to 1.5 mm2.

    electrical.theiet.org/.../

  • If I look at the graph and find I2t of 13,000 it looks like I am ok for pscc/pfc  up to about 3K, bit difficult to read with linear graduation on a log scale.

    I think that's the correct approach, BUT the graph can't be ascertained to be in either a linear or log scale for Ipf above 1500 A, so it's not really possible to take a reading of the actual prospective fault current the 1.0 sq mm will be OK for with this device (red dotted lines in the below clip from the data sheet).

    All we could ascertain from the portion of the graph for fault currents > 1500 A, is that 1.0 sq mm will be OK with Ipf of 1500 A or less, but not 6 kA.

    In the graphs I am assuming the horizontal is PSCC/PFC. In my example I have a PFC of 700A, therefore I2T = about 5000 A/sec

    YES, this is the one we can rely on, because the graph is linear up to 1500 A, it is possible to see that the I2t value for a PFC of just under 750 A is a little under 5000 A2s (blue dotted lines in the below), proving the 1.0 sq mm would be OK for this particular installation with the pfc you have ... so, as long as the 700 A is the PFC at the origin of the circuit.

  • Not quite true, BS60898 B32 MCBs were not available when the circuits were installed in the 1970s, they would have been BS3871 Part 1 MCBs, but by the time we were sitting in college doing the calculations they were BS60898.