It is not necessary to know Iz if method use is5.1 and 5.2

Basic cable calculation
Checking Iz 
From BS7671

Method is used in items 5.1 and 5.2    Ib or In / Correction factors
 
It should be noted that the value of (It) appearing against the chosen cross-sectional area is not (Iz).
It is not necessary to know Iz where the size of conductor is chosen by this method.

But it is possible to get incorrect coordination with cable calculations that seem acceptable?


Ib   28A
In 32A
L 40m
Ca 0.94
Cg 0.7
 
Cable T&E
Clipped direct
 
Calculation
 
It ≥ Ib ÷ correction factors so:    It ≥  28 ÷ 0.94 x 0.7 =  42.5A
 
Table 4D2A Method C  6mm2  cable - 46A   It = 46
 
Volt drop 8.17V
 
So 6mm cabe looks OK
 
But if I do check Iz
 
Iz = It x Correction factors     46 x 0.94 x 0.7 = 30.26A
 
Ib ≤  In ≤ Iz      28 ≤ 32 ≤ 30.26     
Parents
  • Sorry, this must be painful for you.

    Thank you for you time and patience.
    But I think I’ve got it.
    It is basic transposition.
    I got a bit confused with the greater than symbol
     
    Also when using Ib things will not always follow coordination
    but thats OK as long as fault currents meet thermal withstand 434.5.2 
    So.. Quick calculation
     
    Ib = 16A
    In = 20A
     
    C = 0.5  (correction factors)
     
    It ≥  In ÷ C
     
    so...
     
    It ≥  20 ÷ 0.5 = 40  
     
    So It(min)  = 40A
     
    Iz = It x C
     
    Iz = 40 x 0.5 = 20
     
    Iz = ( In ÷ C) x C (algebraic expression)
     
    20 = (20 ÷ 0.5) x 0.5
     
    So Iz must alway be at least equal to In
     
    16 ≤ 20 ≤ 20
     
    Now we look up the book value of It(min)  and get an It of 46A 
     
    we know that this value will always be equal or higher to In, so we do not need to check.
     
    But I will...
     
    Iz = It x 0.5   =  Iz = 46 x 0.5 = 23
     
    Ib ≤ In ≤ Iz   16 ≤ 20 ≤ 23
Reply
  • Sorry, this must be painful for you.

    Thank you for you time and patience.
    But I think I’ve got it.
    It is basic transposition.
    I got a bit confused with the greater than symbol
     
    Also when using Ib things will not always follow coordination
    but thats OK as long as fault currents meet thermal withstand 434.5.2 
    So.. Quick calculation
     
    Ib = 16A
    In = 20A
     
    C = 0.5  (correction factors)
     
    It ≥  In ÷ C
     
    so...
     
    It ≥  20 ÷ 0.5 = 40  
     
    So It(min)  = 40A
     
    Iz = It x C
     
    Iz = 40 x 0.5 = 20
     
    Iz = ( In ÷ C) x C (algebraic expression)
     
    20 = (20 ÷ 0.5) x 0.5
     
    So Iz must alway be at least equal to In
     
    16 ≤ 20 ≤ 20
     
    Now we look up the book value of It(min)  and get an It of 46A 
     
    we know that this value will always be equal or higher to In, so we do not need to check.
     
    But I will...
     
    Iz = It x 0.5   =  Iz = 46 x 0.5 = 23
     
    Ib ≤ In ≤ Iz   16 ≤ 20 ≤ 23
Children
  • It is worth noting that not all books use the same notation for the letters, although these days mostly they  do, and I find it helpful to have a 'plain language' description of what is happening.

    Ib is the design current, which is the normal operating current of the circuit, while
    In  is the rated current or current setting of the protective device (like a fuse or circuit breaker). The relationship between them is that
    In>=Ib
    In must be greater than or equal to Ib whis is the same as saying Ib must be less than In
    Ib<= In

    or  the protective device might trip during normal operation, and

    at the same time 
    Ib must be less than or equal to the cable's current-carrying capacity (Iz)
    so Ib<=Iz
    Iz>=Ib

    which is the cable's rating.
    Or the cable may be overloaded.

    Of course once exams are passed you then will realise its not really always true - the limiting of the load current could just as well be at the load end or the origin - Perhaps consider a single 13A fused spur, on 2.5mm2 fed by a 20A or even 32A MCB will be fine, as the 13A fuse means the cable cannot be overloaded even though the circuit protection appears to be 32A.
    More generally odd socket circuits are usually the ones where it is hard to be sure as you are often not really sure what might one day be plugged in and it maybe looks a if the breaker is too small, - perhaps a single 20A breaker feeding half a dozen BS4343 style 16A sockets for kit in a small workshop looks undersized, when the nature of the loads and the use pattern means it really isn't.

    Then there is the matter that short duration overloads like motor startup in-rush may trip the breaker, but assuming they don't, the cable is fine with it, as it takes several minutes to warm a large bundle of cables and the grouping derating can be pushed quite a lot, if cables are not all fully loaded at once for a long time.
    It is certainly worth keeping your wits about you above and beyond the algebra.
    Mike

  • Sorry, this must be painful for you.

    Not at all!

    But I think I’ve got it.

    It is basic transposition.
    It is indeed! - plus realising that cables only come in certain fixed sizes, so you're likely to end up picking one that's a bit bigger than you actually need. Do the calculations (It and Iz) on the basis of what you actually need and you can guarantee that the corresponding values for the real cable won't be smaller.
       - Andy.