USB charger outlet in Bathroom Zone2

Assuming there is no 230V socket, is not the 5V of the USB already  derived by transformer inside the fitting ? (though probably a switch mode one).

Your bigger problem will be the IP rating of the USB electronics  as not designed to survive steam and condensation.

I have in the past where I needed a USB socket in a wet place ( that was on a vehicle mind you) I located electronics in a separate box in the dry and extended the 5V side of things by a couple of metres with a USB extension cable .

 Chasssis mounted USB sockets  link to one example, can look quite smart on a suitable blanking panel. there are also modular grid socket versions both with PSU and where a USB cable comes out the back,

A variation on that theme might be worth considering with the actual supply protected either in a cupboard or outside the bathroom altogether, and just the USB cable coming into Z2..

Mike.

That was plan B.

I make special plates so I could use a simple ipx4 socket in and ipx4 plate/ back box configuration with a USB outside zone 2 or even 3. But am I allowed to embed the USB extension cable in the wall?

I also think the USB brick (230vac to usb) has to be hard wired?

Well a USB cable in the wall is an example of ELV, so arguably safer than a mains cable in the wall (!), the hardest problem will be threading it through a suitable route with the plug on, and the distance cant be too long, as the voltage drop at 5V becomes proportionally more  serious. The mains to USB converter  would have to be hard wired if it was in the bathroom Z2, or indeed within 2.5m of the edge of the bath or shower tray.
Outside that distance you can have a normal 13A socket. It must be said, very few modern bathrooms have that much free space, hence the advice that in effect bathrooms in the UK remain socket free zones. The easy solution may be  a USB fitting in the adjacent room and a line through the wall. I'd probably use flexible conduit or something so the cable can be easily threaded.

Mike

Peter69 said:

I've been asked to add a USB charging port into a bedroom with a bath in it.

My understanding of BS7671 is that a room with a bath is a bathroom. As such the outlet would be in zone 2 of the bath.

Yes, this would be classed as a location containing a shower or a bath and therefore Section 701 of BS 7671 applies.

A separate transformer would not be needed if the outlet really did provide SELV ... if it didn't, it could be problematic in any case ... the following requirement was included in BS 7671:2018+A2:2022:

701.414.3 Sources for SELV and PELV
Where SELV or PELV is used in zones 0, 1 and/or 2, a source described in Regulation 414.3 (iv) shall not be used.

It's important to check the product really does provide SELV or PELV. If PELV, the product should be connected to the equipotential bonding system provided for the location, if this is necessary.

Finally, I'd just point out that there have been a number of cases where people have suffered electrocution in the bath, when using a mobile device on charge. It's not clear on the mechanism involved ... i.e. whether the charger itself was conformant, and whether the voltages and currents involved are suitable for someone who is immersed. Charging equipment is usually only specified to be safe in dry environments.

www.irishtimes.com/.../

Peter69 said:

I've been asked to add a USB charging port into a bedroom with a bath in it.

mapj1 said:

It must be said, very few modern bathrooms have that much free space

gkenyon said:

electrocution in the bath

I suppose that in the days before fixed plumbing, one might have taken a bath in a bedroom, but my mind boggles nowadays. Who is going to spend so long in a bath that the 'phone's battery will run out? 

Presumably, there would already be sockets in the bedroom.

I am bound to wonder what completed the circuit in Graham's link. Could it be that supplementary bonding contributed?

The user might not have any charge at the commencement of the soak?

Does it really have to be <600mm from the bath?

Zone 2 demands IP X4 (701.512.2) - and I don't see any USB socket complying with that (there's an exemption for shaver sockets, but not as far as I can see for other kinds of sockets, SELV or otherwise).

  - Andy.

To be quite frank, splashing aside, the distance doesn't appear to matter for using devices on charge in the bath, because extra-long leads are quite commonly available.

In terms of "completing the circuit", the newspaper report points to the expert believing contact with the shower, so something might have come through the charger?

I agree it's not clear, and certainly things would be a little safer if there were no path the Earth available.

However, there have also been electrocutions in the bath from mains products, where there was no path to Earth involved, and of course in these cases RCDs won't operate either !

Connections to Earth (or bonding) aside, when someone is immersed, current thinking is that there isn't an agreed limit of voltage below which things can be considered "safe" - so the device itself might be bad enough in some cases ... but that is not clear.

The problem in the case of Ann-Marie O'Gorman above, and indeed the ten or so others in the last decade, is not the 5V of the USB - its the full- fat mains, presumably appearing on the charger output due to either damp or other fault bridging primary to secondary in the power supply - she had mains electrocution style  entry and exit burns according to the autopsy, and yes, the path was completed to earth.

Consultant forensic engineer Paul Collins also told the court that it was likely that Ann-Marie’s phone fell into the water and in an attempt to grab it, her right finger touched an earthed  shower attachment, causing her body to be electrocuted.

Also in at least one other case, (and there have been at least ten in the last decade) the mains extension lead complete with charger ended up in the bath tub, though the official reports are not always clear on this. 

Note that there are some immediately  dangerous USB power supplies on sale on the web, and most folk dont realize that when you order something to be posted to your house from abroad, there is no particular guarantee that the UKCA, CE or other safety marks are anything more than decoration - the importer, in this case also the purchaser, is ultimately responsible for checking. (and quite a lot of real importers dont seem to realize their responsibilities either.)

Example of a particularly bad mains powered  rechargeable torch with a dangerous USB output for charging your phone.... Long vid but the first 5 mins is probably enough.

Mike