Ed Throws Trade Bodies Into Chaos Over DIY Solar!

I am not sure why we need to back feed into a 13 amp socket? There are a load of grid tie inverter/battery units which can connect to solar panels, so any item plugged into the unit is using solar and battery backed, without any back feed into a 13 amp socket. And they can't give away solar power without payment. 

Clearly a battery feeding back into the grid without payment would be a bad move. And not much better with just solar.

My first thought was designed to allow tenants to have solar, owner occupiers already have the option. But to get paid for export, one needs a second MPAN number, so the solar would need to be less than the base load, and smart meter only show every half hour, so one has no idea of the base load, unless one already has solar.

A iboost+ can use any export over 100 watt, which is OK with a 6 kW array, but with 800 watt maximum it seems a bit pointless. Unless everyone is going to get a second MPAN number. 

The phrase "balcony solar" or "plug in solar" or "grid tie solar" can equally apply to a battery/inverter with outlet sockets on the battery, which puts nothing back into the grid, to a device which does feed back into the grid. I note already a British plumbing outlet is offering solar which feeds into the grid, but there is a 99 day waiting list, but as someone who already has solar, I know solar really needs a battery as well, and also if I got balcony solar which feeds into the grid, who will know if the energy is from the G98 registered solar, or the plug in solar? I already have the MPAN number, so this would be a cheap upgrade for me.

But today's news, says we have too much solar, so to buy more solar when the export rate has already dropped from 15p to 12p seems a bit of a chance. 

https://cn-cob.com/blog-detail/vde-standards-an-in-depth-analysis-of-germany-balcony-power-plant

Thank-you TurboGen - that was a very interesting read. The Germans seem to have done a very thorough job there - and indeed their logic is based on the extra 800W for the durations PV would be likely to supply won't cause their 1.5mm² conductors on a 16A MCB any serious harm. Interesting to note the some other European countries prefer 13A protective devices. They did have to go to some efforts to show it was safe though, as it fails a simple Iz >= In + Ig test.

What I'm not clear on yet, is why the German VDE standard writers allow a regular Schuko socket (comparable to BS1363 or IEC60309 plug) to be used to connect an 800VA inverter with upto 800Wp (+20% / 960Wp) of solar PV modules (i.e, panels), but if a 'special energy plug' which appears to be these better shrouded and locking, Wieland RST 20i3 plug/sockets, then the same 800VA inverter can be connected to upto 2000Wp of solar PV. 

I'm guessing, but their workings seem to presume only so-many minutes per year of thermal overload - pairing 2kWp panels with an 800W inverter presumably would mean that the inverter was running at full whack for many more hours - longer each day as it makes better use of dull morning and evening light, less dips in output when clouds pass and much more likely to be generating on winter days. So the thermal damage to the cable insulation would potentially be greater and so less tolerable. I guess the presumption is that a dedicated socket would be connected in a way that overloads could be completely avoided.

  - Andy. 

I disagree

Politicians mislead the public as to what Brexit would do.  Everybody remembers the bus saying something like

We send the EU £350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead" Vote Leave bus

Politicians mislead the public as to what Brexit would do

A minority of politicians perhaps - many others advised the exact opposite. One of the consequences allowing a debate and free speech I suppose. Many of the flaws in the arguments (both ways) were obvious even at the time. Voters are expected to be able to make up their own minds, rather than needing to be "guided" into what's thought to be best for them. Surely every voter understands that there are different points of view and "statistics" can be presented in different ways to match different points of views.

   - Andy.

AJJewsbury said:

I'm guessing, but their workings seem to presume only so-many minutes per year of thermal overload - pairing 2kWp panels with an 800W inverter presumably would mean that the inverter was running at full whack for many more hours - longer each day as it makes better use of dull morning and evening light, less dips in output when clouds pass and much more likely to be generating on winter days. So the thermal damage to the cable insulation would potentially be greater and so less tolerable. I guess the presumption is that a dedicated socket would be connected in a way that overloads could be completely avoided.

If the 'special socket' had to be on a dedicated radial circuit, that would make sense as the use of a unique plug/socket would then make that a dedicated circuit just for balcony solar / plug-in generation, which is quite a logical approach.

It would actually work quite well - homes could be built with a dedicated circuit to the balcony, or other suitable outdoor space, with this unique socket installed, ready for the future owner to connect their own plug-in system. And being shrouded on both plug and socket, with a locking connector is arguably better than a regular plug/socket.

But if the 'special socket' can be wired into an existing socket circuit, the it must relate to something like the stored / capacity energy shock risk on exposed plug pins, lack of a locking connector or long term suitability of conventional Schuko sockets for generation use. 

TurboGen said:

It would actually work quite well - homes could be built with a dedicated circuit to the balcony

Or even with PV on the roof.

I am dismayed at a development a mile and a bit from here of "up to 99 dwellings" by a major housing association (they have 37,000 dwellings). Not a panel in sight. If anybody needs PV, it's people on limited incomes.

Sergio Fernandez said:

Politicians mislead the public as to what Brexit would do.  Everybody remembers the bus saying something like

We send the EU £350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead" Vote Leave bus

Then we had covid-19.

Clap for the NHS.

When I was a lad, it was NHS for the clap.

AJJewsbury said:

One of the consequences allowing a debate and free speech I suppose. Many of the flaws in the arguments (both ways) were obvious even at the time. Voters are expected to be able to make up their own minds, rather than needing to be "guided" into what's thought to be best for them. Surely every voter understands that there are different points of view and "statistics" can be presented in different ways to match different points of views.

I agree

I also think that there should be a team/department that does not get altered by whichever government runs the country for a few years and looks at scoping longer term 10 to 15 year technical projects that will benefit the country.  As an example look at the train and rail system in China.  The speeds being acheived are phenomenal

I also think that there should be a team/department that does not get altered by whichever government runs the country

That'll be the civil service then .. (did you ever see "Yes, Minister"?)

As an example look at the train and rail system in China.  The speeds being acheived are phenomenal

And HS2 was meant to better even that (360km/h) ... see where that's got us

   - Andy.

Have a look at the MagLev trains, they are claiming 500km/h 310mph

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L0_Series

Don't get me started on HS2.

Who are all the passengers? And why the rush?

Here on the sunny south coast, I can get a train from my nearest station, Fareham to London in 100 minutes. Only one direct train per hour - the others are even slower. 66 miles as the crow flies, so 40 mph. :-(

Don't get me started on HS2.

Who are all the passengers? And why the rush?

Here on the sunny south coast, I can get a train from my nearest station, Fareham to London in 100 minutes. Only one direct train per hour - the others are even slower. 66 miles as the crow flies, so 40 mph. :-(