Ed Throws Trade Bodies Into Chaos Over DIY Solar!

I am not sure why we need to back feed into a 13 amp socket? There are a load of grid tie inverter/battery units which can connect to solar panels, so any item plugged into the unit is using solar and battery backed, without any back feed into a 13 amp socket. And they can't give away solar power without payment. 

Clearly a battery feeding back into the grid without payment would be a bad move. And not much better with just solar.

My first thought was designed to allow tenants to have solar, owner occupiers already have the option. But to get paid for export, one needs a second MPAN number, so the solar would need to be less than the base load, and smart meter only show every half hour, so one has no idea of the base load, unless one already has solar.

A iboost+ can use any export over 100 watt, which is OK with a 6 kW array, but with 800 watt maximum it seems a bit pointless. Unless everyone is going to get a second MPAN number. 

The phrase "balcony solar" or "plug in solar" or "grid tie solar" can equally apply to a battery/inverter with outlet sockets on the battery, which puts nothing back into the grid, to a device which does feed back into the grid. I note already a British plumbing outlet is offering solar which feeds into the grid, but there is a 99 day waiting list, but as someone who already has solar, I know solar really needs a battery as well, and also if I got balcony solar which feeds into the grid, who will know if the energy is from the G98 registered solar, or the plug in solar? I already have the MPAN number, so this would be a cheap upgrade for me.

But today's news, says we have too much solar, so to buy more solar when the export rate has already dropped from 15p to 12p seems a bit of a chance. 

Those docs are an interesting analysis, especially the variation of cable assumptions between countries. and slightly at odds to the german technical press, with the 800W limiting the export to the grid, but far higher figures supporting local loads in the building and filling local battery storage...

https://www.tepto.de/blog/Neue-VDE-Norm-fuer-Balkonkraftwerke-Mehr-Module-mehr-Speicher-mehr-Moeglichkeiten

Truth will be in between as always and unmonitored installations could do almost anything.

Mike.

The cost of living crisis is partly to do with the rising cost of energy which helps to raise inflation.

A lot of people don't know or understand that oil in part makes electricity in the uk.  Nuclear does the stable daily amount and oil/gas make up the fluctuations eg when people put the kettle on in the tv advert break so to speak.   Wind/solar  and renewables make up still a small percentage of uk energy.

So when there is Geo-Political issues like the closure of the Strait of Hormuz or russia invades yes invading Ukraine then the price of oil rises and thus UK energy cost go up and so does inflation.  People need to understand that as a nation we buy in a lot of our energy from abroad and that is the start of our fundamental issue.  We have the North Sea it has oil and we should use/drill/extract our own oil and gas.  The oil and gas is also used for the production of a lot of plastics and other petro chemicals.

Many people is America do NOT want the war with Iran but American companies are profiting from it.  Especially the US stock market.  Over the last 6 months, the American stock market has seen significant growth and reached record highs. The S&P 500 has surged roughly 13% in rolling six-month returns, while the Dow Jones has climbed over 50K points and the tech-heavy Nasdaq has advanced above 26K points.  

The UK government needs a think tank (other committee names are available)  to look at this and simply get the UK makeing energy and storing energy.  The energy needs to be shifted across the UK with only a moments notice which at the moment it can’t as the links between England and Scotland are already at capacity which is why we see many wind turbine stationary.  Old army/airforce bases could be used as locations for energy storage farms that are connect to the national grid.

The problem with the North sea oil of course is that it is old hat. Since 1970 we have taken out a touch under 50 billion barrels equivalent (volumes change pre/post refinement and separation of water hence 'equivalent' ) It made us very wealthy in the 1980s and 90s. and we outsourced a lot of industry while our GDP and exchange rate was propped up (up to 5% of GDP was oil and gas for many years)
Now mostly gone, and the great 'new' opportunities, like Rosebank and a couple of others offer perhaps up to 1 more Billion barrels between them, which will stem the decline for a couple of years. (for comparison right now Saudi Arabia do 3-4 billion barrels equiv per year, we squeeze out about 30 million a year, less than half of what we use - maybe less now .. )

Then we are back to having to buy in the rest (we need ) - so yes we should use it, but we should be aware that when its gone, its gone, and there is a balance - it may be even more valuable left so we have it in a few years time. Generally as much as poss we need to grab anything that is not fossil fuels whenever it is available - local batteries and  panels on flat roof extensions and balconies make a lot of sense in that wider picture, as do better inter-connectors.

Mike.

Wind/solar  and renewables make up still a small percentage of uk energy.

I wouldn't call 36% a small percentage - that's just wind and solar energy contribution to the total over last year - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz947djd3d3o

At times wind supplies over 50% of power, and solar is often over 30%.

   - Andy.

I do understand the concept of when the North Sea oil is depleated then that is it but as I have mention on this forum in the past we need to 

Increased HV transit capacity form Scotland to England 

Store energy in systems (multiples) the size of Wembley stadium and connect to the NG (National Grid)

Store energy in resovoirs

The UK government needs to look at it energy policy and get engineers and free thinker involved as some of the dicisions made by politiican are questionable.  As a casing point have you benefitted from Brexit?  Personally I am worse off after brexit, so are my local roads, so is my local hospital.  Brexit was a vehicle by politicians on how to Obfuscate the UK populus

But we really lack as a country a good way to store the energy for re-use.  We need a technology to re-sync it back into the National Grid

In fact, it looks like wind actually out-generated gas for the 2025 calendar year (from electricinsights.co.uk/ setting for the Sum for 1 Year starting 01/01/2025):

  - Andy.

Sergio Fernandez said:

As a casing point have you benefitted from Brexit? 

Although that came about not from political policy as such (IIRC the official policies of all the major parties at the time was to remain) but a popular vote (referendum). I suppose you could argue that a policy of not offering the people a direct vote in the matter might have been better. Mind you the population of most democracies seems to have a reputation of voting against the direct consequences of what they voted for last time - so things may change again at some point.

   - Andy.

https://cn-cob.com/blog-detail/vde-standards-an-in-depth-analysis-of-germany-balcony-power-plant

Thank-you TurboGen - that was a very interesting read. The Germans seem to have done a very thorough job there - and indeed their logic is based on the extra 800W for the durations PV would be likely to supply won't cause their 1.5mm² conductors on a 16A MCB any serious harm. Interesting to note the some other European countries prefer 13A protective devices. They did have to go to some efforts to show it was safe though, as it fails a simple Iz >= In + Ig test.

What I'm not clear on yet, is why the German VDE standard writers allow a regular Schuko socket (comparable to BS1363 or IEC60309 plug) to be used to connect an 800VA inverter with upto 800Wp (+20% / 960Wp) of solar PV modules (i.e, panels), but if a 'special energy plug' which appears to be these better shrouded and locking, Wieland RST 20i3 plug/sockets, then the same 800VA inverter can be connected to upto 2000Wp of solar PV. 

I'm guessing, but their workings seem to presume only so-many minutes per year of thermal overload - pairing 2kWp panels with an 800W inverter presumably would mean that the inverter was running at full whack for many more hours - longer each day as it makes better use of dull morning and evening light, less dips in output when clouds pass and much more likely to be generating on winter days. So the thermal damage to the cable insulation would potentially be greater and so less tolerable. I guess the presumption is that a dedicated socket would be connected in a way that overloads could be completely avoided.

  - Andy. 

I disagree

Politicians mislead the public as to what Brexit would do.  Everybody remembers the bus saying something like

We send the EU £350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead" Vote Leave bus

I disagree

Politicians mislead the public as to what Brexit would do.  Everybody remembers the bus saying something like

We send the EU £350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead" Vote Leave bus

Politicians mislead the public as to what Brexit would do

A minority of politicians perhaps - many others advised the exact opposite. One of the consequences allowing a debate and free speech I suppose. Many of the flaws in the arguments (both ways) were obvious even at the time. Voters are expected to be able to make up their own minds, rather than needing to be "guided" into what's thought to be best for them. Surely every voter understands that there are different points of view and "statistics" can be presented in different ways to match different points of views.

   - Andy.

Sergio Fernandez said:

Politicians mislead the public as to what Brexit would do.  Everybody remembers the bus saying something like

We send the EU £350 million a week, let's fund our NHS instead" Vote Leave bus

Then we had covid-19.

Clap for the NHS.

When I was a lad, it was NHS for the clap.

AJJewsbury said:

One of the consequences allowing a debate and free speech I suppose. Many of the flaws in the arguments (both ways) were obvious even at the time. Voters are expected to be able to make up their own minds, rather than needing to be "guided" into what's thought to be best for them. Surely every voter understands that there are different points of view and "statistics" can be presented in different ways to match different points of views.

I agree

I also think that there should be a team/department that does not get altered by whichever government runs the country for a few years and looks at scoping longer term 10 to 15 year technical projects that will benefit the country.  As an example look at the train and rail system in China.  The speeds being acheived are phenomenal

I also think that there should be a team/department that does not get altered by whichever government runs the country

That'll be the civil service then .. (did you ever see "Yes, Minister"?)

As an example look at the train and rail system in China.  The speeds being acheived are phenomenal

And HS2 was meant to better even that (360km/h) ... see where that's got us

   - Andy.

Have a look at the MagLev trains, they are claiming 500km/h 310mph

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L0_Series

Don't get me started on HS2.

Who are all the passengers? And why the rush?

Here on the sunny south coast, I can get a train from my nearest station, Fareham to London in 100 minutes. Only one direct train per hour - the others are even slower. 66 miles as the crow flies, so 40 mph. :-(