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EV CHARGING EQUIPMENT

John Peckham
I am hearing from my network of contractors, that have actually read the new 722, that they have been asking charging equipment manufactures for documentary proof to comply with Note 5 of 722.411.4.


They are getting knocked back for asking or in one case a Declaration that says the particular device complies with BS 7671. I think that is wrong to declare that as BS 7671 is an installation safety standard and not a product standard. I believe that as a minimum the equipment must comply with the Low Voltage Directive and be CE marked. I also believe that manufacturers have to issue a Declaration of Conformity. 


BS 7671 722 has numerous references to the various standards required such as BS EN 61851 that the equipment must comply with. I am thinking it may be illegal to offer the sale of equipment that does not comply with the Low Voltage Directive and is not CE marked?


I am hoping the countries top man of equipment safety standards, Paul Skyrme , sees this post and will come on and give us his expert view?


Has any forum member asked for a Declaration of Conformity from EV charging equipment manufacturers and received one?
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    Jon Steward:
    https://andersen-ev.com/andersen-a2/specs/

    No DoC from these guys just this spec.




    Which includes: "Complies with BS 7671:2018, 722.411.4.1 (iii) TT : earth resistance < 200 Ω according to BS 7671:2018, or < 100 Ω for some vehicles".

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    At least it does claim to include all pole breaking and a type B RCD functionality, and be suitable for a PME eath, so some thought there.


    Amusingly their  our team web page  describes the Technical director as Bad at maths but big on creativity  Which is more the sort of thing  I'd associate with a marketing director, or in some companies, accounts.

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    Today I aim to measure an RCD or two to determine the DC characteristics. I have nothing else which I can do as am confined to the house, and will attempt to plot the DC sensitivity of any RCDs I can find lying about. I don't think I have a B type, but a number of A types should be fairly easy with a lab constant current supply and my MFT. I will report on the findings later.
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    Interesting from NZ here

    Type B to be used, at least on domestic arrangements. Also Suppliers Declaration of Conformity
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    Today I aim to measure an RCD or two to determine the DC characteristics.




    I;d be very interested in  any serious blinding you find - so far my rather unscientific testing has not seen anything other than a rise in threshold of about the same as the DC.

    I used a 'jammer' from a bench supply of DC with a fully floating output and a couple of wire wound resistors (one to N, one to E, started with 1k  ohms and then reduced to mul;tiples of 100 in parallel) to set the current and with a thousand uF or so of C across the DC supply to act as a fault limiters if something unpleasant came down the NE loop.

    The actual threshold of the RCD I found a bit variable from shot to shot even without the jammer, and also needed a bank of resisiors as I do not have a ramp tester.

     


  • 0

    Sparkingchip:




    Chris Pearson:




    Sparkingchip:

    If you have become an installer and have gained approval to fit specific chargers, how much choice are you going to give potential customers?




    So when you go out to buy your EV, how much choice do you get in the M-B dealer, or the BMW one, or the VW one, or ...


     




     

    So if you go to the car dealership and order your new car along with the installation of an EV charger at your home how much choice are you going to get?


    I cannot help but think that many people will just get what the EV charger the installation company and car dealership wants to install, rather than maybe what is best for the customer.


    I cannot imagine many people ever ask for a declaration of conformity before placing their order for the car, the charger or anything else associated with them. I can also imagine that those who do are quite possibly considered a pain in the butt.


    Andy B.

     




    Such as a “free” 3 kW charger rather than a more suitable 7 kW charger.


    Andy Betteridge 

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    Mike

    I have tested one 30 mA so far. The results are interesting, particularly that I couldn't make it work on a 250W isolating TX with TN-S output at all, PFCC 16A. So a bit of wiring to give me a non-RCD protected 13A socket, and things got better. I used a Megger MFT 1552 tester which gives 4 options for the delta In test, 0, 180 degrees and +,- DC. I used a lab supply with CC output strainght across the N of the RCD, no Rs and Cs for me! DC current measured with a Fluke multimeter as below the PSU meter resolution. The RCD (I will not reveal the make yet) was brand new supplied in a 18th ed metal CU. First test at 0 DC although all the equipment connected gave (30 mA ramp) AC 0 12ms, AC 180 7.6ms,DC + 18ms and DC - 7.5ms. So all passed with flying colours, trip times about 20ms at 30 mA all round. 10 MA of DC changed the AC 180 to 21 mA and DC+ to 12 mA,Others much the same, but results very  repeatable. 20mA DC not much change. 30 mA DC stopped AC trip altogether (both phases) and DC-, but DC plus still tripped at 18ms.


    Next change to 5 delta In (150 mA). Here up to 100 mA of DC made little change on AC test, I haven't done DC yet as SWMBO is wanting a hedge trimmed! I will look out some others to see what they do, but not exactly as expected for a EN61008-1 RCCB (80A).
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    This is the setup
    7ac56123aa4c791944a3bad99b57e882-huge-20200409_1642081.jpg

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    David


    I am surprised that a Type AC will still trip at 150mA with a 100mA of DC injected. I will have a go at measuring the DC injection on my old Robin 4120DL loop tester. It locks up RCDs but not RCBOs. It would suggest that RCBOs have a higher DC immunity than RCDs. My DC clamp meter only goes down to 100mA so my test may not indicate anything.
  • 0
    I can confirm that a 200 mA DC current can trip most types of RCD, just try doing a R1+R2 test with a RCD in the circuit ?

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