I'm not sure I'd go into panic mode about the rubber tails - it doesn't look like the insulation is falling off them and if they're embedded in masonry/plaster they're unlikely to start a fire even if severely overloaded (which seems unlikely). Certainly over-due for replacement and it sounds like that's planned anyway - so no point crying wolf.


     - Andy.

https://communities.theiet.org/user_content/forums/topics/photos/27914/441e1955118398d5c372d5c581f9b1f4-huge-2021-03-08-11.11.21.jpg

davezawadi (David Stone):

I agree with Andy, those tails in the picture are not in immediate danger of failure as far as I can see. This is not a case of panic. The old tails we are told travel up to another meter, in the flat above, and the meter operator will be responsible for the tails between the cutout and the meter (as no one else can connect them) and there is potentially a risk of abstraction. I suggest you contact them and point out that their installation is unsatisfactory. These cables do not belong to the consumer and are not part of a BNO installation. If you really need more power then the DNO will supply another distribution cable at a considerable cost, to supply the upstairs flat alone.

Hi David

UKPN did come out before I posted this and the engineer said that they were not responsible for the riser; their responsibility ended at the service head which is in the downstairs flat.  I did phone customer services to question that and did get it escalated.  That's when they quoted EDS 08-1103 section 6.1.  Definitely pre 1972 so not between 1972 -2013.  So not quite sure what can be done apart from the client paying for it.  It definitely needs sorting asap!  Anybody on here have a successful 'dialogue' with a DNO in a similar situation and get a successful resolution.  The engineer hinted that they may just come, cut off the supply until it's sorted and tough luck on the client ...

Zoomup:

I'm not sure I'd go into panic mode about the rubber tails - it doesn't look like the insulation is falling off them and if they're embedded in masonry/plaster they're unlikely to start a fire even if severely overloaded (which seems unlikely). Certainly over-due for replacement and it sounds like that's planned anyway - so no point crying wolf.


     - Andy.

https://communities.theiet.org/user_content/forums/topics/photos/27914/441e1955118398d5c372d5c581f9b1f4-huge-2021-03-08-11.11.21.jpg

Ah, see what you mean - I hadn't realized that as the same tails - they looked smaller c.s.a.


   - Andy.

Hicky59:

The engineer hinted that they may just come, cut off the supply until it's sorted and tough luck on the client ...

Hicky59, thank you for the clarification. Thank God it's the neutral rather than line which has an exposed conductor.


That "riser" needs to be disconnected from the service head today.

Zoomup:

This situation is obviously a very serious one making a shock and/or fire risk very possible. As you know it needs serious urgent attention. I would try to escalate the claim for renewals to be undertaken without delay.  Perhaps a report of a burning sell and concerns about fire would help? If you undertake the work, a switch fuse will be needed at the meter position and a new sub-main installed to the upper level. I would also assume TN-C-S despite what you can see.


Edit add. I would be tempted to get repairs undertaken immediately whatever the cost to the client. It is vital to ensure safety. Safety first, cost second. 


Can you run a new sub-main externally?


Z.

Agreed that it does need urgent attention Zoomup‍ and I don't mind admitting that whilst I am qualified, I wouldn't feel competent to do this on my own hence asking for advice here from more experienced people like yourself.  And getting someone else in to do it, help and learn from it.

I'm almost of a mind to get the client to bite the bullet and get a new separate supply and remove the problem from access, sharing a cutout with the downstairs flat and the loop in, etc.  Or do you think that's excess and unneccesary cost.  Install a new cabinet outside, move the smart meter outside as well; install a Lewden switched fuse in there and run a 25mm2 three core SWA externally and enter the upstairs flat at a similar point to where the old VIR cables exit the brickwork and enter the CU direct?

Chris Pearson:

Hicky59:

The engineer hinted that they may just come, cut off the supply until it's sorted and tough luck on the client ...

Hicky59, thank you for the clarification. Thank God it's the neutral rather than line which has an exposed conductor.


That "riser" needs to be disconnected from the service head today.

But who knows what's lurking inside the walls where we can't see ......?  As you said, I wouldn't want to give them a tug test ...