201 series of regs , notification, and the term domestic

".201" in BS 7671 has nothing to do with domestic vs other types of installation. See Page 13 of BS 7671 for where ".2xx" is generally used.

The clue on this Reg is the word "household".

Normally the dot 201s are not specifically domestic - though that example is, 

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 and shall:
i.have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible material, or
ii.be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material and complying with Regulation 132.12.
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal e.g. steel is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material

What it does show is a departure from the numbering that might be expected from following the harmonised standard .(from CENELEC in the form of doc 60364, mostly. ) BS7671, and the other EU countries national standards all follow this, except where they do not,

So there is no equivalent of our 201s to be found in the German or French wiring regs, and they in turn have a few things we do not (like sockets in bathrooms)


Part P only requires you (In England, Wales Scotland differ) to notify wiring with 60cm of a bath or shower, and complete new circuits, and consumer units.

However part P does apply to the whole pub

" art P applies to electrical installation ....

<snip of lots of other cases>
. in business premises (other than agricultural buildings) connected to the same meter as the electrical installation in a dwelling – for example shops and public houses below flats. "


So if you add a complete new circuit the pub, it is strictly notifiable under part P,

421.1.201 does not apply however.

Mike.

So if you add a complete new circuit the pub, it is strictly notifiable under part P, 421.1.201 does not apply however.

Thanks, my thoughts exactly. The 201 thing was a generalisation, as one of them is "sometimes" ie  421.1.201.

Note the "household" specific, as it does with luminaires in "household".


I knew this time was a coming. We are five years on from 2015 and now having to deal with the consequences of the various dictats of scheme inspectors personal preferences and varying specious manufacturers advice; you will note the manufacturers advice specifically around 2015/6 was that these new all metal boards were for TN systems only, as provided in their documentation. The "advice", has been amended in the literature, but in a more weasel form; essentially it is up to you; are you feeling lucky?


Yes this pub is TT. Yes, I do not like a complete absence of ADS upstream of the DB. But that is what some installers have been told to do, but in this instance they could have taken a view 421.1.201 did not apply and have the 100mA s type upstream of the metal. It could so easily have been done.

Another conundrum, this has thrown up.

You will be aware that various schemes have different levels of "membership".

Some can do "domestics only" , notionally these are the only things "assessed" under that level of membership and supposedly "guaranteed".


Same for EICRs; limited to those assessed for such a task. If not, you still do them, but there is no come back to the scheme as it is "out of scope" of membership. A distinct advantage to those so inclined and so you have many, many threads on EICRs in this forum.


Effectively, the DB change in the OP has been done in quite clearly a "non - domestic", aside from it needing notification due to meter share. So this work is out of scope of the Installer; it will never be assessed or viewed at an annual assessment....but....paradoxically it is notifiable, the whole point of "domestic installer schemes".


So the scheme Notifies, but scheme does not verify at any stage. It is in some limbo somewhere. There will be no come back to the scheme operator by the person ordering the work.  This is very much having your cake and eating it, so all the responsibility magically vanishes.

It is time PartP was ditched. There are lots of reasons, here are a few of my pet hates:


Notifiable works are not within the competence of Local Authorities or their Building Inspectors.

In most cases, they sub any inspections out to some other contractor, which is daft, as that contractor could fill out the paperwork for less money

Nothing is ever done with the paperwork. So far none at all has been produced in the Grenfell inquiry as far as I have seen. No notifiable work at all over at least 15 years?

Even when they have a notification, or give BR permission, they only want an EICR, which they don't understand.

Unless you have notified you cannot get a BR completion certificate, even if there is no notifiable work.

Has anyone got any others?

But it is fulfilling the main purpose for which it is supported, generating income for NICIEC et.al.  The absence of any reductions in accidents over and above any pre-existing trend is unfortunate. Mind you the same observation is equally true for Corgi and then Gas Safe, the accident trends are the same in places without it.

Mike.

Mike has it bang in the money - literally.

This pub thing - I changed 2 old 8 way wylex 3036 boards in a freehouse belonging to some friends back in 2010 or thereabouts. Common supply to both public and private areas above, no seal on DNO 60A fuse so swapped out old rotten/falling off wall isolater for a new Wylex metalclad with 60A fuse, ran some 25mm 3 core SWA from this new isolator at intake in cellar to a then-new MEM 2 distboard with 3 to 1 phase conversion kit and reconnected all circuits formerly fed from 2 x 3036's into this new board.

Come 2016 they decide to retire and sell up - conveyance went straight through no questions asked, certs issued back in 2010 accepted.

I am not and never have been a member of an approved contractor scam - no need.

Initial post serves to highlight how convoluted these bureaucrats and scam providers can make the process if allowed to access it.

My advice? Steer clear of the scams.