This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

Exported PME to steel floodlight columns, public tennis courts

Hi

We're doing an EICR at a local tennis club. It has a number of  3 phase floodlights mounted on galavanised columns illuminatimg outdoor tennis courts.

They are earthed via an exported PME TNCS system which was surprising because we'd imagined they would have sunk an earth rod at each column and not exported the PME.

The location is open to the public. Circuits not 30mA RCD protected foir additional protection.

I'm no

Many Thanks for your help

  • Absolutely right AJ. I assumed that in the OPs case the MCBs were set on to a bare busbar. If not, andIP2X or IPXXB is in place then no issue. 
    That being the case, I would have no issue with any aspect although I concur that the absence of 30mA RCD required by 7671 is worth further consideration if one was setting out a design. In that regard, where the luminaire is mounted below 2.8m, IS10101 requires that due regard is given to the failure of the illumination in terms of slips, trips and falls and, as a minimum, requires the circuits to be sub-divided. 

  • For interest only, I just had a peep at 714 in the Irish Regs, also founded on 60364. 30mA RCD protection is not required for luminaires mounted at a height of +2.8m. Like 7671, the term luminaire does not include the column

    Ah, thanks for that! It's nice to know I'm not alone, even if I'm wrong!

    One none compliance that nearly passed me by and (had to read it twice) was 714.411.201the door in the street furniture used for access not to be used as barrier or enclosure. This installtion had an unenclosed din rail with MCBs screwed to a metal plate in the column, so C2 for that anyway.

    Its not entirely ignored as an enclosure - as I read it with the door open it only need to provide basic protection - so unsheathed wires would be OK for instance - and live parts need only to have IP2X (or IPXXB) (finger) protection - which a lot of MCB terminals comply with. Whether the bared wires into the MCB do, is perhaps more questionable. So maybe not an open and shut case as it were.

        - Andy.

  • For interest only, I just had a peep at 714 in the Irish Regs, also founded on 60364. 30mA RCD protection is not required for luminaires mounted at a height of +2.8m. Like 7671, the term luminaire does not include the column. Also, in common with 7671 IPXXB or IP2X is required with the enclosure open. So, I would agree with Patrick that the rather poor design of the arrangement inside the column that he describes warrants a code 2. I have seen too many of this type of enclosure either defective or missing to have anything less.

  • Hmmm  that is strange as it's  already covered in 411.3.4 and domestic fall outside anything listed in 714.411.3.4

  • 714.411.3.4 has made its way onto the NAPIT domestic installations EICR Schedule of Inspections, so I have already found myself questioning it’s scope.

    engx.theiet.org/.../129635

  • Thank you everyone and this has been a really useful thread for me. As way of a post script I spoke to NIC tech today about this. 

    Just to answer an earlier question, the light supply is not direct from a DNO and is distributed via the 3phase feed at the club house

    Some debate about whether it was in the excluded from list of public lighting that needs the 30mA RCD but the only exclusion that came near was street lighting and traffic signage. Obviously not that, so was deemed to be spaces open to the public so required additional protection. I think we can agree on that?

    Other debate as hilighted by Mr Jewsbury was would the light high on top of the column be accessible to the public, however we quickly agreed that the metal column had to be included as part of the light. 

    What we couldn't decide was the EICR code. C3 improvement recommended because the installation met the regs at the time it was installed  (10 years ago) or a C2?

    One none compliance that nearly passed me by and (had to read it twice) was 714.411.201the door in the street furniture used for access not to be used as barrier or enclosure. This installtion had an unenclosed din rail with MCBs screwed to a metal plate in the column, so C2 for that anyway.

    This has been a learning journey , thank you and now we are going to become  floodlight specialists just to annoy David Stone

    Cheers Pat

  • 30 mA RCD protection is an absolute requirement for lighting in a pub garden, there’s no way anyone could argue that it doesn’t come under indent (i) Gardens, spaces open to the public.

    I am fairly confident that the requirement covers a tennis club and courts as well.

    But it's not an absolute requirement as stated - it's conditional on the lighting being accessible and not of the kind listed as excluded (which includes street lighting). It still seems to me that a light fitting on the top of a 5m or whatever pole isn't accessible to the public. The pole itself, even it metallic and bonded, isn't any more hazardous than any exposed- or extraneous-conductive-part and I don't see any additional protection being demanded for outside taps.

       - Andy.

  • 30 mA RCD protection is an absolute requirement for lighting in a pub garden, there’s no way anyone could argue that it doesn’t come under indent (i) Gardens, spaces open to the public.

    I am fairly confident that the requirement covers a tennis club and courts as well.

  • Yes, I would agree with you Sparkingchip. Strict reading of the regulation would require 30mA RCD protection for the tennis court lighting. After all they are in a space open to the public. Not sure if that was the intention but that’s neither here or there. 

  • The Regulation 714.411.3.3 in the 18th Edition has been expanded and become 714.411.3.4 in the 18th Edition Amendment Two, broadening the requirement for 30 mA RCD protection to include gardens, spaces open to the public.