Bathroom appliance help please

mapj1 said:

However, even then it might be unwise, for reasons of  damp and perhaps machines rusting away.

At one time, I would have supported this perspective, and certainly up to the early 1980s, many machines on the UK market didn't do well in a bathroom environment.

However, in today's global market, things are a little different.

Many countries in Europe think having dirty laundry in the kitchen is quite disgusting, and bathrooms are a common place to find washing machines and tumble dryers. Machines are therefore now made with that use case in mind, it being relatively common in the European market at a whole. 

Also, I hope many bathrooms today are better-ventilated than those in the 1970s, or can be made so quite easily (if one has the correct certification to do that work, of course).

Sergio Fernandez said:

I agree on a new build but there is a substantial stock of 1920/30's 3 bed semi in the UK that have had sustantial material change to the building that do not comply with Part F of the Building Regulations.

Kitchen same though ... certainly in my 1930s house ... without the extractor, cooker hood, and trickle vents, both of those rooms would be sodden in winter.

gkenyon said:

if a correctly selected and correctly functional RCBO (Type A minimum) is present.

Would  AMDEA (Association of Manufacturers of Domestic Electrical Appliances) understand the RCBO type and why some countries like Germany deprecated type AC use over 30 years ago?

Sergio Fernandez said:

 Countries like Germany, Type AC RCDs and RCBOs (which only detect pure sinusoidal AC fault currents) were officially deprecated for general human protection against electrical shocks in 1987.

I don't think the situation is that ALL type AC RCDs (or RCDs that pre-date BS EN 61008 series and BS EN 61009 series) are necessarily 'blinded' at all times by a switching converter. Certainly, according to the diagrams in Figure A53.1, it's only where the electrical fault occurs on the load side of the converter for many appliances. Granted, that could be a leaking washing machine or boiler, but the RCD will work for other faults until that point, for example.

We can also get tied up in knots if we aren't careful. For example, there were no EMC tests in BS 4293 (or BS 7288 prior to a certain point). Similarly, even where EMC tests were done, EMC tests develop over time as the electromagnetic spectrum has been used and abused differently with the development of technology. ...  so how do you know your particular RCD/RCBO/SRCD will actually operate correctly when exposed to the EM environment in a home with modern appliances, WiFi, etc.? 

Lisa Miles said:

Personally I'd love to have my washing machine and tumble drier in the bathroom (if it was big enough) but at the moment the washing machine is in the kitchen and my tumble dryer lives in my shed

Similar in our house, washing machine and dishwasher in kitchen, tumble dryer in detached garage.

I disagree.  A 15 min piping hot shower makes more steam than a kitchen even if you boil water for food with the lids not present.  To prove this you would need a Hygrometer which are quite cheap and then you can see the RH (Relative Humidity) value for the kitchen and bathroom.  Then take a reading every 15 mins for the next 2 to 4 hours.  

The current recommend value for RH in a UK dwelling is 40 to 60%, above 60% then dew point will come into play and that would be the start of damp and/or condensation in the dwelling.

A 15 min piping hot shower makes more steam than a kitchen even if you boil water for food with the lids not present. 

Not steam from a shower (it's well below 100°C) - water vapour perhaps. I'm not sure about the cooking comparison either - my grandmother would boil ham (no lid) for several hours (and the veg wasn't for much shorter). As for the RH readings - wouldn't they just plateau at 100% regardless of how much extra water was forced into the air? (the excess being dumped just as rapidly as condensation).

  - Andy.

I agree the term should be water vapour and yes at 100% it will plateau but the fact remains, a UK bathroom will have a higher RH than a UK kitchen for a longer period of time if long hot showers are taken

Moisture in kitchen v bathroom.

We have a 10 inch fan in the kitchen. If it is not used, condensation appears pretty quickly. Don't forget that "gas" burns to produce CO₂ and H₂O. The dishwasher also expels moisture at the end of its cycle.

There is a very weedy fan in my bathroom. When the central heating is on, there is no problem with condensation, but just lately, the mirrors have been steaming up.

Our laundry appliances are in the scullery, where moisture is not a problem.

I rather doubt that there is a significantly greater environmental risk when "kitchen appliances" are situated in a bathroom.

Lisa Miles said:

my tumble dryer lives in my shed

Is it a dehumidifier/condensing/'heat pump' style beast, or the old roasted clothes style?

gkenyon said:

Kitchen same though ... certainly in my 1930s house ... without the extractor, cooker hood, and trickle vents, both of those rooms would be sodden in winter.

Mine is a Scottish 1960s property and we had that 'kitchen sodden in winter' when we first moved in 2 years ago. It's been a journey, as they say.

Folks are too quick with prettifying their homes without appreciating all the hidden engineering 'comfort' aspects (safe?).

gkenyon said:

Kitchen same though ... certainly in my 1930s house ... without the extractor, cooker hood, and trickle vents, both of those rooms would be sodden in winter.

Mine is a Scottish 1960s property and we had that 'kitchen sodden in winter' when we first moved in 2 years ago. It's been a journey, as they say.

Folks are too quick with prettifying their homes without appreciating all the hidden engineering 'comfort' aspects (safe?).