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18th question.

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Hi all, any comments welcome on this one.
Is it still acceptable to have a socket outlet for a specific use not rcd protected under the 18th?
I fitted a single 13a socket outlet recently in a loft space for one of my regular customers, it is to supply a security camera system and the suppliers asked for a socket to be provided. It is supplied from the first floor lighting circuit which doesn't have rcd protection. (16th. ed. board) There is not the slightest chance of the socket being used to supply anything else and I would like to issue a mwc stating that the socket is only to be used for this specific purpose. If it's a major issue I could get back to the customer and arrange to fit an rcbo but I don't really think that is necessary? Thinking now about going back to change socket for an rcd protected one?
  • 0

    Nowhere do the regs say you can't have a socket on a lighting circuit



    Indeed - if fact regulation 559.5.1 (v) says explicitly that it's permitted - and indeed commonly done in some areas where the ability to unplug an individual luminaire etc. for servicing etc is useful.


      - Andy.
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    Why not fit a 2A 'clock socket'? Smaller than the old round pin 5A ones but it ensures that nothing heavier can be plugged in. I would assume that a B6A mcb will cover the overload protection side.

    I f not, then a RCD FCU with a 2A fuse should do the trick.
  • 0
    Maybe in this case you could, but a lot of the things that get plugged into lighting circuts, for example DC supplies for electric window motors and blinds, some designs of  LED driver, TV amplifier power supplies, etc are designed with a moulded plug as part of the casing. In such a case, a 13A socket is unavoidable.
  • 0
    Or (playing Devil's Advocate - following on from a discussion with Graham) - instead of using an ordinary 13A socket, fit some sort of joint box to terminate the fixed wiring, then run a short length of loose flex to a trailing socket (e.g. https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLRS1.html). By BS 7671 definitions the trailing socket is a "connector" rather than a "socket outlet" (the latter has to be connected to the fixed wiring to meet the definition) - hence the additional protection requirements for sockets don't apply.  (why isn't there a tongue-in-cheek emoji?)

      - Andy.
  • 0
    Just throwing in a curve ball.


    The regulations are now going for a more risk assessment based answer to most things with this not being exempt from the trail of thought.  If you carried out a risk assessment that clearly defined the reasoning behind not installing a Residual Current Device would it then go towards ultimately protecting the installer from potential accusations?


    Just Thoughts??


    Darren
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    Paul Skyrme:

    My opinion here will deviate from what is stated in BS 7671, and, for some crazy reason that there has been no explanation of the product standard for RCD socket outlets (and fused connection units) have been removed from BS 7671:2018, so that could require a deviation, me, I'd not worry and fit one, including a deviation if necessary.

    The requirement in BS 7671:2018 is that ALL socket outlets in domestic premises must be RCD protected.




    The current version of BS 7288 actually says that additional protection should already be in place within the installation. The last sentence of the first paragraph of Clause 1 of BS 7288:2016 states:

     



    SRCDs are intended for use in circuits where the fault protection and additional protection are already assured upstream of the SRCD.


  • 0
    Which does rather beg the question 'why bother then ?'  as if you do that,  there is never a situation that needs an RCD socket or FCU, where we came in.

    I cannot see any merit in a manufacturer specifying compliance with such a standard.


    It is up there with having a forml specification for  bin bags that have an opening at both ends, like some that I once bought a very cheap roll of once from a man at a boot sale.

  • 0
    Agreed, I believe there may well be an error in BS 7288, and what it says is not what was intended.


    It's quite likely that BS 7288 was intended to say something quite simple such as the products can't provide protection upstream, and in any event devices to the standard alone don't necessarily provide overcurrent protection, and must be coordinated with devices providing fault protection above a certain prospective fault current level.
  • 0

    The regulations are now going for a more risk assessment based answer to most things with this not being exempt from the trail of thought.  If you carried out a risk assessment that clearly defined the reasoning behind not installing a Residual Current Device would it then go towards ultimately protecting the installer from potential accusations?


    Just Thoughts??



    I'm tempted to follow the same curve. We don't know what the perceived risk is, apart from advice given to us from BS7671 to reduce the maladroit stupidity of certain tabloid readers.

    Consider a household under seige from beligerant neighbour/s. To progress further with poosible court action proof would be needed. A CCTV system installed and supplied from a non-faltering supply would be appropriate. Whether or not a rumble in the jungle might be able to knock out an installed RCD on a class II end of line circuit would need to be open to a test, you certainly wouldn't want to take a fully earthed system out in the open where it could be used to invalidate the system..

    Just another thought  ?

    Legh
  • 0
    SADLY, there is a chance that someone could use that socket for cutting floorboards / similar in the loft, we just cannot guarantee anything anymore.


    I guess we have all done things that we regret, later, and it plays on our minds... it should be ok though!


    regards...

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