City and Guilds 2330

Has anyone studied CG2330 and subsequently discovered problems with it? 

We're in the process of promoting one of our employees to a QS position (we're with the NICEIC) and having completed all the forms, it turns out that the technical certificate he did in his apprenticeship in 2011 is now not worth anything. Certainly it isn't deemed suitable as a craft qualification for a QS role anyway. It seems that in their wisdom, the EAS (who are they anyway??) have decided that suitable level 3 qualifications do not now include the CG2330 and have unilaterally decided to remove it, despite it once being accredited as the recognised technical certificate of apprenticeships for several years. He clearly had no choice in the technical certificate he studied, it was just part of his apprenticeship at the time.

So an electrician with a full apprenticeship under his belt and over 12 years industry experience is now deemed not as qualified as an apprentice completing their studies in 2023, or an adult trainee having completed an intensive 28 day training course. They honestly think this is reducing electrical incidents? The NICEIC are typically not interested at all and have ruled out any form of appeals procedure where it can be justified that his experience and once-recognised qualifications are just as viable as anything being taught today. Their only solution is to suggest he takes an additional course. The organisation doesn't seem the least bit interested in standards of electrical safety, they're just happy to take customer's money off them. On top of this are the amazing double-standards and confusion in this industry. He can apply for a JIB gold card as approved electrician (the ECS & JIB accept his qualifications - it's just the EAS that don't).

How on Earth do we try and get some uniformity with the these different organisations (ECA, JIB, ECS, EAS etc etc etc) and get them all singing off the same hymn sheet? Is there any point trying to lobby anyone to look at the blatant discrimination at play with retrospectively degrading someone's apprenticeship? This is unfairly hampering career progression and we can't be the only ones affected.

  • I feel your pain.

    Even more so when having to deal with admin staff that have probably never terminated a cable in their life, suddenly deciding that they're important enough to tell you that you aren't qualified, just because some other admin person has produced a list for them. It's all 'bums on seats' for them and making sure they get a new list of paying customers regularly flowing through the door. There just isn't anything in it for them to spend time looking to scrutinise clearly erroneous and badly planned decisions that negatively impact the electrical contractors they supposedly represent.

    Up until 2021 the CG2330 was deemed a perfectly acceptable qualification and no one can tell me why it was suddenly deemed inferior to the 236 (before) and 2360 (afterwards) - both of which are still acceptable level 3 technical certificates. So anyone that carried out the CG2330 between 2007 and 2012 and didn't complete an accompanying NVQ 3, suddenly has a piece of scrap paper instead of a qualification. This is despite them completing what all the training authorities told them was a recognised industry training programme. If they want to introduce new standards for electricians then fair enough, but they definitely shouldn't be allowed to unilaterally and retrospectively punish those that carried out their qualifications in an arbitrary window of time. 

  • Superb post.

    I did the 2361 and 2362 as yourself starting mine in 1980 with the 14th then onto the 15th. Lost my 'letter' long ago.

    And as with yourself I guess we all see those having completed AM2 with so little experience receive 'gradings' to work on sites that so many older electricians are prohibited!

  • Further to my last, I have had a look another look at the Equality Act 2010 and either S. 53 or S. 57 may come into play - provisions concerning qualifications bodies and trade associations respectively.

    The principle of indirect discrimination is that somebody with one of the protected characteristics is less likely to be able to satisfy a requirement because of it. So if somebody who trained in the 1980s is at a disadvantage compared with somebody who trained say in the 1990s onwards, that may constitute unlawful discrimination because, self evidently, people who trained in the 1980s are older than those who trained later.

    That may give rise to a claim in the County Court (if I understand the Act correctly), but who wants the palaver and expense of litigation? Moreover if one solution is to get the up to date qualifications, you will not get many hours of a solicitor's time for the same amount.

    My advice would be to have a good look at the Act and write formally (on paper with a stamp on the envelope, not by e-mail) and complain about the discrimination. Good luck!