I feel your pain.

Even more so when having to deal with admin staff that have probably never terminated a cable in their life, suddenly deciding that they're important enough to tell you that you aren't qualified, just because some other admin person has produced a list for them. It's all 'bums on seats' for them and making sure they get a new list of paying customers regularly flowing through the door. There just isn't anything in it for them to spend time looking to scrutinise clearly erroneous and badly planned decisions that negatively impact the electrical contractors they supposedly represent.

Up until 2021 the CG2330 was deemed a perfectly acceptable qualification and no one can tell me why it was suddenly deemed inferior to the 236 (before) and 2360 (afterwards) - both of which are still acceptable level 3 technical certificates. So anyone that carried out the CG2330 between 2007 and 2012 and didn't complete an accompanying NVQ 3, suddenly has a piece of scrap paper instead of a qualification. This is despite them completing what all the training authorities told them was a recognised industry training programme. If they want to introduce new standards for electricians then fair enough, but they definitely shouldn't be allowed to unilaterally and retrospectively punish those that carried out their qualifications in an arbitrary window of time. 

Superb post.

I did the 2361 and 2362 as yourself starting mine in 1980 with the 14th then onto the 15th. Lost my 'letter' long ago.

And as with yourself I guess we all see those having completed AM2 with so little experience receive 'gradings' to work on sites that so many older electricians are prohibited!

Further to my last, I have had a look another look at the Equality Act 2010 and either S. 53 or S. 57 may come into play - provisions concerning qualifications bodies and trade associations respectively.

The principle of indirect discrimination is that somebody with one of the protected characteristics is less likely to be able to satisfy a requirement because of it. So if somebody who trained in the 1980s is at a disadvantage compared with somebody who trained say in the 1990s onwards, that may constitute unlawful discrimination because, self evidently, people who trained in the 1980s are older than those who trained later.

That may give rise to a claim in the County Court (if I understand the Act correctly), but who wants the palaver and expense of litigation? Moreover if one solution is to get the up to date qualifications, you will not get many hours of a solicitor's time for the same amount.

My advice would be to have a good look at the Act and write formally (on paper with a stamp on the envelope, not by e-mail) and complain about the discrimination. Good luck!

I qualified under the 2330 in 2006 and worked on the London underground upgrade as a sparky for the preceding 5 years before moving to Aus. I  2021 I returned and endeavoured to get my gold card where I believed teading my Aussie licenses for the gold was a simple conversion. JIB informed me that during covid, that avenue had been shut down, no explanation. I was informed that if I wanted the card, I had to perform various tasks over 18 months and be assessed by an accredited professional in order to be signed of. Wasn't doing that. I pottered around for a few years doing odds and  sods before deciding to go back into contracting. In one   year, I have applied for various improver roles as well as installer positions but as yet nothing. One agency, offered me a role as a mate, at 13 pound an hour and then give it to someone else, this is even though they have all of my certifications.  It seems that the 2330 carries the same stigma as a plaque.

Yes, going back to this, I paid for the C&G 2346 two years ago. I know I've been a bit slow about it, but I never got it finished. Anyway, I got a call 2 weeks ago, saying I need to get it done by the end of October. Fair enough. Then I got a phone call, it need to be submitted by 19th September, which was not going to happen. So I've called it a day on that one, and written it off, and Ive accepted I'll never be working on a site again, or be able to sign off my own domestic work. Crazy, we need workers, but put obstacles in the way to those who can do the work.

Lyle Dunn - any news on the timeframe required for 2346? The Training place say it is C&G who demand it is finished in a certain time, also, they say to get onto the 2346 course now, you need a NVQ2. I've done a quick search, but nothing comes up.

Alan, I don't know your circumstances but I would think it harsh beyond belief if the training centre axed you as a candidate for the sake of a month or two. As far as I know, City and Guilds only introduced the time constraint of 18 months to the 2346 in March 2024. If you were registered before that, then I doubt the constraint can be applied retrospectively. 

Some centres play hard ball and that is understandable as many candidates start with an abundance of enthusiasm and then fall below the radar.

If I understand you correctly, you have paid a substantial fee for the qualification. I would go back to the centre and tell them that you will be complete by the end of October. 

Entry to the 2346 now requires at least a level 2 qualification recognised to provide basic level underpinning knowledge. That was introduced in September 2023. So if you stay with your current registration, you will be able to avoid that. 

If I can help further, just let me know. 

as an aside, "...so many quangos..." -  that's very pertinent point and it has been a real problem across not just this subject, but government (national and local) for a long time ...  effectively off-loading representative responsibility and affecting precious real democracy (if that ever existed)...  

Having the same kind of issue with NICEIC - I nominated one of my Electricians (early 50's) as a QS and his application was rejected as his apprenticeship qualifications were not on the proscribed list. This is despite him holding a current approved Electrician Gold Card, being an HV AP, having his 2391 and having years of experience. 

As i'm in my early forties and completed my apprenticeship a few years after him, have an SVQ 3, Gold and Black CSCS card, 2391 etc -  I applied as QS just out of interest and got the same answer. 

One of my younger team members has just sat his 2391 last week and can now be a QS despite not having anywhere near the same level of experience or supplementary qualifications.

Absolute madness.

I think the JIB is going the same way as well - no more Industry Accreditation from this year.

”An ECS Registered
Electrician Gold Card with the occupation of Installation Electrician, which will show the
relevant version of BS 7671, should typically be sufficient to demonstrate compliance with
the qualification requirements in the Table below.”

Above from NICEIC website detailing minimum qualifications. Would be surprised if someone with an ECS gold card was rejected for application as QS. Maybe worth checking again or pursuing with JIB.

Seeing this thread resurface and I am not surprised ever more are being affected by this nonsense.

To update my situation re: proof of apprenticeship.
After working my way through all trade sources and educational bodies I hit a dead head. No one had proof I was with NORWEB during the period of my qualifications (1980's 2361 & 2362) and the time beyond...

I then had a thought. Who would for sure have records that they would have kept forever if not longer. HMRC they will have records, they want your money, they will have records for sure. And so, I sent a subject access request for my data asking for my work history for the period of the apprenticeship / qualification dates and the time that following.

Well, sure enough they sent back the records showing I was indeed with NORWEB, for the period I stated and they even had how much I was paid for each year there! Could buy an house with £7000 but I digress.

I sent this document as proof of an apprenticeship. Annnnd Computer says no. Reason: words to the effect of 'Ok you were there for the full 4 years from 16 years of age to 20 years of age and for a few years after, yes your wage increased at each stage, yes you took electrical qualifications during this period, yes those qualifications could only have been done with an indentured apprenticeship, yes NORWEB and C & G have confirmed that... BUT maybe you was employed by NORWEB as a cleaner... or something'.

It's nonsense and no one in any of these bodies are prepared to think any further than it must be 'X' you present us with and proof of apprenticeship must be a letter given you at the time (or similar).

Anyway, all us old boys will be dead and then the ECS and JIB can declare 'look we have solved the problem' 'well done us'.